Every time I watch Posey hit...

[Palmoripken]

Because most of us don't consider a guy a "bust" if he is above average, even if he was supposed to be great. And Wieters is above average offensively.

It is also worth noting that Wieters is much better defensively than he was ever advertised to be. He's much better than I expected defensively, not as good as I expected offensively, and in terms of overall value, maybe he is not quite as valuable as I hoped, but he's still very, very valuable. The O's are in the playoffs and he has a lot to do with it, so you'll hear no complaints from me.

That's a fair point about the defense there.

[OFFNY]

I'd rather look at his bat in a vacuum but every time I talk about how he's been a "bust" offensively, the first thing others bring up are his stats versus other catchers.

And, I guess OFF once again has reading comprehension problems, because in the exact post he quotes I concede that the inspiration for this thread was Posey's grand slam, even if I'm not too into comparing Wieters to other catchers (at least when discussing whether or not he's reached his expectations).

Your statement OP was as clear as day as to what you are getting.

Then, you said that you really didn't care how he compares to other catchers hitting when F Robby made a point.

Yes, you stated that Posey's grand slam was the "inspiration" for your thread, but from everything that you have said about Wieters in the past, combined with your counters in this thread (including your not really caring about how Wieters compares to other catchers) seems disingenuous.

I don't think that Posey's grand slam "inspired" you to start the thread, so much as you saw it as an opportunity to take a dig at Wieters. And with Wieters struggling so bad offensively lately, plenty of people have made it clear that is he is disappointing. A Wieters/Posey thread on the heels of Posey's grand slam is just adding fuel to the fire.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Your statement OP was as clear as day as to what you are getting.

Then, you said that you really didn't care how he compares to other catchers hitting when F Robby made a point.

Yes, you stated that Posey's grand slam was the "inspiration" for your thread, but from everything that you have said about Wieters in the past, combined with your counters in this thread (including your not really caring about how Wieters compares to other catchers) seems disingenuous.

I don't think that Posey's grand slam "inspired" you to start the thread, so much as you saw it as an opportunity to take a dig at Wieters. And with Wieters struggling so bad offensively lately, plenty of people have made it clear that is he is disappointing. A Wieters/Posey thread on the heels of Posey's grand slam is just adding fuel to the fire.

I don't really care what you think to be perfectly honest. You're clearly wrong here and I hope you leave me alone and go start a colorful thread about the Nats/Cards game.

[Frobby]

So I assume, if he keeps this up, you would not endorse eventually moving him to 1B?

I've never endorsed moving him to 1B. I wouldn't endorse it even if he was an .850-.900 OPS guy. His defense at C has too much value.

By the way, I still think Wieters will grow more as a hitter. He will probably never be the .900+ stud we hoped, but I think he'll reach a point where he's over .800 regularly.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Of course he's not lousy, he's a good hitter for a catcher.

When I see Posey hit I think "Well, the Giants have a good catcher. And that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the Baltimore Orioles." I try not to grade against hype. I grade against reality. "Should" is a great thing to whine about. If you don't like reality fix it, or offer solutions, don't continually complain about how your fate sucks.

You don't get it. It's not good enough to have one of the top 10 catchers in the league. Everyone on our team needs to be the absolute best at their position. It's unacceptable that other teams have better players than we do. Especially when our players were equally as hyped. >sarcasm<

[Pedro Cerrano]

I've never endorsed moving him to 1B. I wouldn't endorse it even if he was an .850-.900 OPS guy. His defense at C has too much value.

By the way, I still think Wieters will grow more as a hitter. He will probably never be the .900+ stud we hoped, but I think he'll reach a point where he's over .800 regularly.

Yes but it has been discussed because of his size that he can only stand to be an effective catcher so for long before he will need a position change. Hell, Mauer has already started to play a handful of games at first and he hasn't been catching that long.

[OFFNY]

I don't really care what you think to be perfectly honest. You're clearly wrong here and I hope you leave me alone and go start a colorful thread about the Nats/Cards game.

Sure, I'll leave you alone. I'll just comment on your threads as I see fit, just as everyone else does.

[Frobby]

Yes but it has been discussed because of his size that he can only stand to be an effective catcher so for long before he will need a position change. Hell, Mauer has already started to play a handful of games at first and he hasn't been catching that long.

I don't believe that logic. Just because Mauer is tall and has had back issues doesn't mean that all tall catchers will have back issues. Will playing catcher shorten Wieters' career? Probably. I don't care, because his value at catcher is extremely high.

[sevastras]

I understand where you are coming from, I am a HUGE Buster fan. What I think you might be missing is that Buster is one of those extremely special players that just dont come along too often. He is what we hope we have in Machado and what we wanted Wieters to be. Do not under estimate what we have in Wieters though. Even though he is not Buster, he is a top 5 catcher easily. If you start putting together a team of top 5 at their position you are going a long way. I am dissappointed that we dont have Buster, but I am not trading our catcher for any one other than him, that is not bad in my book.

[Col. Claypool]

I'd rather have Posey than Matusz for sure, but I am quite happy to have Wieters doing the catching for the O's. Posey is better than Wieters at the plate, but I don't think he is as good behind it. He could have played any of several other positions in BAL: 1B, OF and perhaps even 2B.

Posey kind of has it made playing out here. He doesn't have to regularly catch in high heat or humidity and the normal home game is played in very favorable conditions. He also started at 1B for close to 30 regular season games. Wieters is definitely a very tough ballplayer, but I often wonder how much of an effect the wear he must experience from catching so many innings in tough conditions has had on his offensive game.

[DrungoHazewood]

So I assume, if he keeps this up, you would not endorse eventually moving him to 1B?

There is no way I move Wieters off catcher unless he has some kind of chronic injury that forces my hand. He'd have to hit far, far better to make him valuable as a mediocre-to-poor fielding first baseman. I have a hard time seeing him as a plus defensive first baseman. I think Reynolds is a little overrated with the glove here, and I can't even imagine Wieters being that good.

[DrungoHazewood]

So you're not disappointed at all with his bat? Ignoring his defense for a minute, you're cool with him OPSing .750? Ho hum?

I'm absolutely cool with a defense-first, pretty good offensive catcher who'll likely be a multi-year all star. But then again, I'm not in the crowd that laments the lost career of Nick Markakis, either.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

I think about what could (should) have been with Wieters.

Instead we got a catcher who is pretty lousy with the bat who gets his defense raved about (and he's legitimately great defensively, no argument) as a crutch to make up for his liability on offense.

Sigh....

Admittedly, I would love to have Posey, but I really don't get the venom you have for Wieters. I don't curse Brian Matusz everytime I watch Chris Sale. I don't speak badly of Nick Markakis everytime I see Ryan Braun. Elite prospects "fail" (or disappoint) all the time. Just be glad he's not Matt LaPorta.

[SteveO]

I'll never understand this logic. I don't believe his plus defense should simply "make up" for what a bust he's been with the bat.

Did Matt Weiters run over your dog or something???

No Matt is not as good with the bat as Posey, likely never will be though time will tell. Still he is better defensively, calls a tremendous game, his manager cant say enough about how much he has meant to this team and his contributions. But ya you keep believing he is a bust and expect anyone to take you seriously. Really??? So if Machado does not put up career prime ARod numbers he will be a bust also.Just cause Posey is right now the best catcher in the game does not mean every other catcher sucks or is a bust....

Just a dumb thread

[Mondo Trasho]

I guess we're supposed to long for the days of Javy Lopez, Charles Johnson, and Ramon Hernandez.