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Appreciation for Wieters


eddie83

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That's my argument exactly.

So you're satisfied giving 550+ plate appearances to a guy that was under .300 OBP last year in a lineup that's already starved for OBP? The dude is just not productive except for when he hits the occasional homer.

I have to think that if Wieters wasn't someone that we watched come up through the farm system, that if he were some random catcher we picked up along the way people would feel differently about him. There seems to be an emotional investment here. All of a sudden we shouldn't expect OBP or anything good offensively from a catcher because he has a harder position than anyone else. Let the excuses fly.

Pretty sure El Gordo is being sarcastic and not supporting your opinion.

Yes we do need to improve our OBP as a team. I just don't look for that as a primary concern from the catching position. Wieters was above average offensively the two previous seasons. Not like he has been poor for years. Last year Wieters also had his worst BABIP. It is certainly possible that he had an unlucky year in that regard. If Buck rested him more and his "numbers" were better would that make us a better team. Matt's numbers would look better but Buck thinks we are better with him in the lineup. I would like to see Buck rest him another 10-12 games a year. If Clevenger is the back up those games could be vs RHP. I think the emotional investment, is that people thought he was going to be Johnny Bench and have held it against him that he isn't him.

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That's my argument exactly.

So you're satisfied giving 550+ plate appearances to a guy that was under .300 OBP last year in a lineup that's already starved for OBP? The dude is just not productive except for when he hits the occasional homer.

I have to think that if Wieters wasn't someone that we watched come up through the farm system, that if he were some random catcher we picked up along the way people would feel differently about him. There seems to be an emotional investment here. All of a sudden we shouldn't expect OBP or anything good offensively from a catcher because he has a harder position than anyone else. Let the excuses fly.

I don't recall you being so upset last season when the exact same thing could have been said about JJ Hardy. (282 OBP 22 HR GG defense 663 AB hitting second)

Am I just being forgetful and you ranted about Hardy at every chance?

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Pretty sure El Gordo is being sarcastic and not supporting your opinion.

Yes we do need to improve our OBP as a team. I just don't look for that as a primary concern from the catching position. Wieters was above average offensively the two previous seasons. Not like he has been poor for years. Last year Wieters also had his worst BABIP. It is certainly possible that he had an unlucky year in that regard. If Buck rested him more and his "numbers" were better would that make us a better team. Matt's numbers would look better but Buck thinks we are better with him in the lineup. I would like to see Buck rest him another 10-12 games a year. If Clevenger is the back up those games could be vs RHP. I think the emotional investment, is that people thought he was going to be Johnny Bench and have held it against him that he isn't him.

You sure Gordo wasn't on board with that opinion?;)

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The Orioles simply can't afford him. He should be traded now, but the alternative of one year deals until he goes FA while searching for a good defensive catcher to replace him is acceptable. No way he should be extended. I suspect his defense will be just average in a couple of years.

Money should be spent on Davis, Machado, and starting pitching. A catch and throw guy with a .290 OBP is not in the budget.

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The Orioles simply can't afford him. He should be traded now, but the alternative of one year deals until he goes FA while searching for a good defensive catcher to replace him is acceptable. No way he should be extended. I suspect his defense will be just average in a couple of years.

Money should be spent on Davis, Machado, and starting pitching. A catch and throw guy with a .290 OBP is not in the budget.

The O's can afford a reasonable extension for Wieters. I just don't know if Boras will allow a reasonable contract. I think we will see Hardy extended this offseason. Then Jim Johnson. Davis and Wieters discussions will happen after the 1st of the year is my guess. The outcome will be decisive in how long both will be with the O's. Five or six years is what the O's probably want. But it could be a few months if they can't come together on deals.

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The O's can afford a reasonable extension for Wieters. I just don't know if Boras will allow a reasonable contract. I think we will see Hardy extended this offseason. Then Jim Johnson. Davis and Wieters discussions will happen after the 1st of the year is my guess. The outcome will be decisive in how long both will be with the O's. Five or six years is what the O's probably want. But it could be a few months if they can't come together on deals.

Jeez I hope you don't have DD ear.

What is a resonable price to extend Wieters ??? I don't think he'll be physically able to catch 100 games a year when he is 30+. Then his .290 OBP makes him a backup catcher at best.

Hardy is about to hit his declining years, should not be extended

Jim Johnson is the most over paid on the team, and should be traded for whatever they can get.

Need to use the money on impact players. Davis, Machado, and a TOR starter, forget about closers and position players with <.300 OBP.

Ever hear of Moneyball????

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Jeez I hope you don't have DD ear.

What is a resonable price to extend Wieters ??? I don't think he'll be physically able to catch 100 games a year when he is 30+. Then his .290 OBP makes him a backup catcher at best.

Hardy is about to hit his declining years, should not be extended

Jim Johnson is the most over paid on the team, and should be traded for whatever they can get.

Need to use the money on impact players. Davis, Machado, and a TOR starter, forget about closers and position players with <.300 OBP.

Ever hear of Moneyball????

You do realize that OBP is no longer undervalued by teams right?

You have to pay more then full retail to acquire OBP.

In fact you could say that low OBP players that have other skills are the currently undervalued commodity.

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I don't recall you being so upset last season when the exact same thing could have been said about JJ Hardy. (282 OBP 22 HR GG defense 663 AB hitting second)

Am I just being forgetful and you ranted about Hardy at every chance?

Shouldn't he be more upset with Hardy since he has made about 7 million more than Wieters the last two years?

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Pretty sure El Gordo is being sarcastic and not supporting your opinion.

Yes we do need to improve our OBP as a team. I just don't look for that as a primary concern from the catching position. Wieters was above average offensively the two previous seasons. Not like he has been poor for years. Last year Wieters also had his worst BABIP. It is certainly possible that he had an unlucky year in that regard. If Buck rested him more and his "numbers" were better would that make us a better team. Matt's numbers would look better but Buck thinks we are better with him in the lineup. I would like to see Buck rest him another 10-12 games a year. If Clevenger is the back up those games could be vs RHP. I think the emotional investment, is that people thought he was going to be Johnny Bench and have held it against him that he isn't him.

I know, I was being intentionally obtuse towards El Gordo. There are some people on the board who you can have fun with and pull their leg. El Gordo isn't one of them ;)

I understand your point about Wieters and I understand the comparisons to Hardy. However, Hardy has at least an .800 OPS under his belt and was at 97 OPS+ last year. Wieters was at 88 OPS+

Sure, JJ shouldn't have been hitting in the 2nd spot last year but that's not his fault. I know it's not the best metric, but at least Hardy beat him by about .030 batting average points.

Wieters has declined in OPS each year. Hardy hasn't. And depending on what you believe, Wieters wasn't as good as a defender this year, making his lack of hitting prowess even more glaring.

Double standard? Sure.

But since I've addressed this, can any of you answer who you'd rather have up at the plate at any moment in the game? Wieters or Hardy?

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Jeez I hope you don't have DD ear.

What is a resonable price to extend Wieters ??? I don't think he'll be physically able to catch 100 games a year when he is 30+. Then his .290 OBP makes him a backup catcher at best.

Wieters' career .OBP is .319. He was never below the .319 mark in any season until 2013. You're dismissing any chance of a return to his career numbers?

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Only because of the amount of wear and tear on him.

You really should admit that there is a good chance for him to rebound to some extent toward his career numbers. I did so with Hardy last season even if it hurt my argument that the O's should trade him and move Machado to short.

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Would depend on the situation. If all I needed was a sac fly, for instance, Wieters. If I needed a base hit to continue an inning, Hardy.

Neither are ideal candidates and I think they are fairly equal with the bat. (740 OPS 96 OPS+ vs 739/98)

Well I'm glad that we can agree on that Wieters is the best one to make an out ;)

You really should admit that there is a good chance for him to rebound to some extent toward his career numbers. I did so with Hardy last season even if it hurt my argument that the O's should trade him and move Machado to short.

I freely admit it, but I think the amount of wear and tear on him will hold him back from doing so.

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