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Cardinals shopping Miller or Lynn for a SS. Would you trade Hardy for Miller or Lynn?


WallyBunker

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After reading everyone's thoughts, and the quality of posting here has been awesome recently, I get that Hardy is a top 5 ss in baseball, or very close to it. He is the kind of guy who can take a team to a different level.

I think Hardy for Miller is fascinating on a bunch of levels. Jon Schoop, get on the fast track to starting third baseman? BRob and Flaherty would have to hold down second.

Tillman, Miller, Gausman, Bundy, Harvey for about 5 years. Youngest, most dominant group in baseball. I can dream...

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The yearly trade our veterans for younger player threads. First, if the Cardinals are dangling Miller for a SS, it's Troy Tulowiski. Second, why are people in such a rush to move Machado to SS? We know he's a GG 3b. Who knows if he will be a GG shortstop. Because playing SS maximises his value? This team should be looking to fill its holes, not creating more. This team needs to add to its core and spend some money. Beltran for 2/30 and a pitcher like Hudson for 2/18 won't break this teams bank account. I can live with Flaherty playing 2b.

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The yearly trade our veterans for younger player threads. First, if the Cardinals are dangling Miller for a SS, it's Troy Tulowiski. Second, why are people in such a rush to move Machado to SS? We know he's a GG 3b. Who knows if he will be a GG shortstop. Because playing SS maximises his value? This team should be looking to fill its holes, not creating more. This team needs to add to its core and spend some money. Beltran for 2/30 and a pitcher like Hudson for 2/18 won't break this teams bank account. I can live with Flaherty playing 2b.

Why trade for Shelby Miller? Because he is the kind of pitcher the O's can't attract any other way. And starting pitching is the name of the game. Beltran is not coming to Baltimore. Not if the Yankee want him. Hudson is not leaving Atlanta. Hardy fits a need for the Card and the return could be what the O's need. Starting pitcher Shelby Miller and hopeful Kolten Wong. Do you really think the Rockies would trade Tulo?

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Why trade for Shelby Miller? Because he is the kind of pitcher the O's can't attract any other way. And starting pitching is the name of the game. Beltran is not coming to Baltimore. Not if the Yankee want him. Hudson is not leaving Atlanta. Hardy fits a need for the Card and the return could be what the O's need. Starting pitcher Shelby Miller and hopeful Kolten Wong. Do you really think the Rockies would trade Tulo?

If there is no chance Beltran is coming to Baltimore, then that's still more likely that 1 year of Hardy will get the O's Shelby Miller alone much less more. The Cardinals would be better off signing Peraltra and keeping Miller. Since as you said pitching is the name of the game.

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Why trade for Shelby Miller? Because he is the kind of pitcher the O's can't attract any other way. And starting pitching is the name of the game. Beltran is not coming to Baltimore. Not if the Yankee want him. Hudson is not leaving Atlanta. Hardy fits a need for the Card and the return could be what the O's need. Starting pitcher Shelby Miller and hopeful Kolten Wong. Do you really think the Rockies would trade Tulo?

And I never said the Rockies would trade Tulo. Just that he's the type of return the Cards would want for Miller.

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If there is no chance Beltran is coming to Baltimore, then that's still more likely that 1 year of Hardy will get the O's Shelby Miller alone much less more. The Cardinals would be better off signing Peraltra and keeping Miller. Since as you said pitching is the name of the game.

The O's give the Cards a window to sign Hardy to an extension. As far as whether the Cards will trade Miller, I don't know. If I where the Cards I would keep him. But if they want to upgrade SS they are going to have to trade someone.

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And I will say again, if they are so enamored of Miller why didn't they pitch him in the playoffs?

That's a question for them. Maybe he was injured. I don't know. Some Cardinals sites say Miller is trouble in the clubhouse. Some say the Cards GM already had a deal in place and didn't want to risk inury. Didnt he have elbow issues in august? I do know that they can do way better than Hardy for a 22 year old that went 15-6 with an ERA around 3 and was worth 3.5 WAR.

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That's a question for them. Maybe he was injured. I don't know. Some Cardinals sites say Miller is trouble in the clubhouse. Some say the Cards GM already had a deal in place and didn't want to risk inury. Didnt he have elbow issues in august? I do know that they can do way better than Hardy for a 22 year old that went 15-6 with an ERA around 3 and was worth 3.5 WAR.

Edit: 15-9 with a 2.5 WAR.

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Why trade for Shelby Miller? Because he is the kind of pitcher the O's can't attract any other way. And starting pitching is the name of the game. Beltran is not coming to Baltimore. Not if the Yankee want him. Hudson is not leaving Atlanta. Hardy fits a need for the Card and the return could be what the O's need. Starting pitcher Shelby Miller and hopeful Kolten Wong. Do you really think the Rockies would trade Tulo?

No chance whatsoever that JJ Hardy lands us Shelby Miller AND Wong. As a 22 year-old, the guy struck out 169 in 173 innings, pitched to a 3.06 ERA, and was a big reason why the Cardinals made the playoffs. And he's under contract for SIX MORE YEARS. Miller isn't going anywhere, and if he is, it will be for a better player than JJ Hardy.

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I just find this whole conversation hilarious. As if J.J. Hardy is the Holy Grail. The Cardinals can do lots of things without giving up two prized prospects. They could upgrade at another position, stand pat (it's not like they couldn't win the WS by standing pat and having their young pitching mature one more year), or sign a Stephen Drew. Why pay a ton in talent for one year of Hardy, even assuming a contract extension for bigger money, when they don't have to? It would be a stupid move for a team that doesn't make too many. If the roles were reversed, you'd laugh or cry at the thought of the Orioles making a similar move.

I agree with you on Drew. It would take 3/30 or 4/40 and a first round draft choice to acquire Drew. That is about the same as signing Hardy and trading Miller. Good point.

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Why in such a hurry to trade Hardy? Why create another hole? If Manny were

healthy then he goes to SS. Then you have a hole at 3rd. Do you want to see

Ryan F. at 3rd. I sure don't. I hope this infield stays the same for awhile. I want

more pitching but not when it creates more problems. IMO

Reports say Schoop can play an above average 3B

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The yearly trade our veterans for younger player threads. First, if the Cardinals are dangling Miller for a SS, it's Troy Tulowiski. Second, why are people in such a rush to move Machado to SS? We know he's a GG 3b. Who knows if he will be a GG shortstop. Because playing SS maximises his value? This team should be looking to fill its holes, not creating more. This team needs to add to its core and spend some money. Beltran for 2/30 and a pitcher like Hudson for 2/18 won't break this teams bank account. I can live with Flaherty playing 2b.

Sorry but I have to laugh. Why would the Cardinals trade their cost efficient SP for an older (older than 28) SS who has over 130M committed to him? Hardy is more of a lock because of his health and the fact that his stats aren't altered from Colorado IMO.

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