Mets wanted Dylan Bundy for Daniel Murphy

[nate22]

Considering the haul the Mets got for Dickey, I can see them proposing a deal like this. Can you imagine their future rotation if they got Bundy? Scary stuff. Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard and Bundy. Wow.

[awannabegeek]

Murphy is better than league average and we don't have league average. You are being ultimate homer. If Bundy were healthy it might be different but no way is it a one way trade offer. You aren't going to get full value for a prospect who just.had tj surgery.

I don't think you quite understand the definition of "homer". My point simply is Daniel Murphy's improvement over what the Orioles currently have is not worth Bundy's potential value. Your thought process is kind of odd on top of that...Yes, you are not going to get full value for a pitcher coming off of TJS...that's actually a reason NOT to trade him. You don't sell low...

[awannabegeek]

Again, I don't think the trade would have been good for the O's, but I don't see why people have to denigrate Murphy to make their points. According to fangraphs, in 2013 Murphy was 7th in baseball in terms of WAR for 2B. The guys ahead of him on that list were Utley, Jason Kipnis, Ben Zobrist, Pedroia, Cano, and Matt Carpenter. Murphy isn't a good defender, and I don't think he'd be a substantial enough upgrade to merit trading Bundy, but he's not exactly average, either.

I'm not sure I denigrated Murphy...my point is exactly what you said...the improvement is not worth Bundy

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm not sure I denigrated Murphy...my point is exactly what you said...the improvement is not worth Bundy

Nothing against Murphy. He's just a 1.5-3 win second baseman being paid arb rates for two years before he hits free agency. Nothing remotely comparable in value to a top 10 or 15 MLB prospect with ace ceiling and six years of team control at discount rates. If you want an asset of Murphy's caliber you could acquire one for a lot less.

[jabba72]

Why were the Mets offering us their 2B-man? An average one at that? Thats what I would like to know.

[atomic]

I don't think you quite understand the definition of "homer". My point simply is Daniel Murphy's improvement over what the Orioles currently have is not worth Bundy's potential value. Your thought process is kind of odd on top of that...Yes, you are not going to get full value for a pitcher coming off of TJS...that's actually a reason NOT to trade him. You don't sell low...

So if DD offered Wieters for a Mets pitching prospect coming off TJ you would state DD made a laughable offer to the Mets?

[awannabegeek]

So if DD offered Wieters for a Mets pitching prospect coming off TJ you would state DD made a laughable offer to the Mets?

A few problems with the question...

1. Despite the volatility of pitching prospects, all pitching prospects are not created equal...

2. If you're saying Daniel Murphy is the 2b equivalent of Matt Wieters, last year yes, the last four years, Wieters overall has been 7th amongst his positional peers in WAR, while Daniel is 18th in WAR

3. I would say it was laughable, actually because it doesn't benefit the Mets at all. Why would you trade a young cost-controlled-talent for a catcher entering free agency in a couple of years when you already have a young-cost-controlled talent at catcher?

4. It's also a bad trade from the Orioles perspective

My argument is one of maximizing value, your argument is well, "he's a prospect"...trades do not happen within a vacuum.

[DrungoHazewood]

So if DD offered Wieters for a Mets pitching prospect coming off TJ you would state DD made a laughable offer to the Mets?

Basically you're asking if it would be smart for the Mets to offer up six years of Noah Syndergaard for two years of Matt Wieters at arb rates? TJ surgery or not, that would be a very poor trade for the Mets.

So... atomic... I'm gathering from this thread that you think there's almost no chance of Dylan Bundy returning to anything like his previous form, right?

[atomic]

Basically you're asking if it would be smart for the Mets to offer up six years of Noah Syndergaard for two years of Matt Wieters at arb rates? TJ surgery or not, that would be a very poor trade for the Mets.

So... atomic... I'm gathering from this thread that you think there's almost no chance of Dylan Bundy returning to anything like his previous form, right?

No I didn't say that. I didn't say I would make that trade it just isn't as ridiculous as people make it out to be. You aren't going to get a quality major leaguer with 2 years of team control and a reasonable contract for minor leaguers that you don't want yourself.

[awannabegeek]

No I didn't say that. I didn't say I would make that trade it just isn't as ridiculous as people make it out to be. You aren't going to get a quality major leaguer with 2 years of team control and a reasonable contract for minor leaguers that you don't want yourself.

There is a middle ground between Dylan Bundy and "minor leaguers that you don't want yourself". You don't give up a potential #1 for an average second baseman. And, you don't sell the potential #1 low.

[Number5]

I'm surprised this discussion is still going on. The Orioles naturally said no to the offer immediately. There is nothing to see here.

[DrungoHazewood]

No I didn't say that. I didn't say I would make that trade it just isn't as ridiculous as people make it out to be. You aren't going to get a quality major leaguer with 2 years of team control and a reasonable contract for minor leaguers that you don't want yourself.

Who ever said you would? We were only stating that a 2-ish win second baseman at $5M a year isn't nearly as valuable as a potential ace. Nobody was expecting the O's to acquire Murphy for... I don't know... Trayvon Robinson or Xavier Avery or something. You'd need to offer up a plausible case at $10M or $15M in surplus value. Bundy has a plausible case at $50M or $75M, and an outside shot at $100+.

[awannabegeek]

Who ever said you would? We were only stating that a 2-ish win second baseman at $5M a year isn't nearly as valuable as a potential ace. Nobody was expecting the O's to acquire Murphy for... I don't know... Trayvon Robinson or Xavier Avery or something. You'd need to offer up a plausible case at $10M or $15M in surplus value. Bundy has a plausible case at $50M or $75M, and an outside shot at $100+.

Honestly, I think his entire argument is Bundy is a prospect and could fail, so he's not as valuable as a "sure thing"...I think while as we fans we can overrate the value or prospects, there is another side of the coin that totally does not see the value (even though they have an immense amount of value as cheap contributions that allow you to allocate resources to other areas and or as a resource to trade to improve) in an "unproven" commodity, Atomic would fall in that category...

[atomic]

Honestly, I think his entire argument is Bundy is a prospect and could fail, so he's not as valuable as a "sure thing"...I think while as we fans we can overrate the value or prospects, there is another side of the coin that totally does not see the value (even though they have an immense amount of value as cheap contributions that allow you to allocate resources to other areas and or as a resource to trade to improve) in an "unproven" commodity, Atomic would fall in that category...

I don't fall into that category. Bundy is damaged goods. I wouldn't trade a star player for him if I were another team. If he comes back and is pitching like he did before then his value increases. Everyone on here seems to like our unproven prospects more than players on the team.

[tntoriole]

I don't fall into that category. Bundy is damaged goods. I wouldn't trade a star player for him if I were another team. If he comes back and is pitching like he did before then his value increases. Everyone on here seems to like our unproven prospects more than players on the team.

Dylan Bundy was the consensus number one pick in all of baseball. TJ surgery is successful the vast majority of the time. Daniel Murphy is nowhere near a "star player". This entire thread is tiresome. Nobody is trading Dylan Bundy for Daniel Murphy. Nobody, nohow, nowhere.