Just a Bit Outside: Is Pitch Framing Underrated?

[weams]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/jonathan-lucroy-pitch-framking-makes-batters-swing-bad-pitches-021215

Catcher framing, and its effect on the game, are also difficult to measure rigorously. Fortunately, we are lucky enough to have Jonathan Judge, Harry Pavlidis, and Dan Brooks on the case. Their most recent article provided a precise framework for measuring much of the value due to catcher framing.

However, their work has been focused to date on examining the direct impact of the catcher upon the strike calls. Catcher framing quality to date has been measured only in the set of pitches that are not swung upon, whose value is determined by the umpire's call. But there is another player present in the matchup in the person of the batter, and catcher framing also might impact the batter's actions.

The batter suffers when there is a good framer behind the plate, and prospers when there is a poor one.

[Dr. Unk]

[video=youtube;utfkOFia0wE]

[Can_of_corn]

Kinda funny that they think it is a huge discovery that hitters are more likely to swing at borderline pitches if they think they are going to be called strikes. And using the term "Bad pitches" is baiting for clicks.

[PA724_Oriole]

Framing shouldn't even be a part of the game. Not saying it should be illegal, but where the gloves ends up shouldn't determine what the ump calls.

I played catcher throughout most of my childhood and have seen strikes not called due to it ending up as a passed ball. Whether I messed up or just miscommunication and didnt expect a certain pitch.

I have witnessed in all levels of baseball umps sometimes start making the call before the ball even hits the catchers glove. What the catcher does or doesn't do should have ABSOLUTELY NO influencenon the call.

[Can_of_corn]

Framing shouldn't even be a part of the game. Not saying it should be illegal, but where the gloves ends up shouldn't determine what the ump calls.

I played catcher throughout most of my childhood and have seen strikes not called due to it ending up as a passed ball. Whether I messed up or just miscommunication and didnt expect a certain pitch.

I have witnessed in all levels of baseball umps sometimes start making the call before the ball even hits the catchers glove. What the catcher does or doesn't do should have ABSOLUTELY NO influencenon the call.

You would think that they would be attempting to train the Umps not to be influenced by framing.

If I was an Ump I would feel downright foolish to see video of a catcher deceiving me into missing a call.

[AdamK]

What sort of criteria do umps need to uphold in order to get a TUE?

[Aristotelian]

There were a couple articles last year on how good CJ was at pitch framing. Folks have noted how much our pitchers outperformed their FIP pretty much across the board, and that is usually attributed to our defense, but I wonder if CJ's pitch framing was also a big part of that.

[Big Al]

I think framing is overrated. It's just something else for analysts to talk about.

How well can the umpire even see the catcher's mitt? I agree with the earlier post that any umpire worth his salt would make his call based on where the pitch crosses the plate, not where it ends up.

If I were behind the plate and saw a catcher try and bring and outside pitch into the strike zone, I'd be more inclined to penalize him with a ball. Analogous to an NBA player flopping.

[weams]

There were a couple articles last year on how good CJ was at pitch framing. Folks have noted how much our pitchers outperformed their FIP pretty much across the board, and that is usually attributed to our defense, but I wonder if CJ's pitch framing was also a big part of that.

I think so. I think it helps to get more strike calls. Especially low ones.

[Il BuonO]

There were a couple articles last year on how good CJ was at pitch framing. Folks have noted how much our pitchers outperformed their FIP pretty much across the board, and that is usually attributed to our defense, but I wonder if CJ's pitch framing was also a big part of that.

He was good, but remember he didn't catch a whole season. I find it hard to believe that a guy who wasn't known for his defensive ability all of a sudden turned it around at the ML level in one season to become one of the best in this regard.

Let's see how he does over the course of a season or with a few more reps before we're giving him all this credit.

[Aristotelian]

He was good, but remember he didn't catch a whole season. I find it hard to believe that a guy who wasn't known for his defensive ability all of a sudden turned it around at the ML level in one season to become one of the best in this regard.

Let's see how he does over the course of a season or with a few more reps before we're giving him all this credit.

I don't disagree, but he did catch 75 games. Thats enough to tell us some things. Of c with 75 games he had #1 catchers era in mlb. This is with a pitching staff with no #1 starter and pretty much average performance the previous two years. 40% cs. Some issues with blocking and passed balls, but overall he had a massive positive impact from his defense. I think his framing was a huge part of the teams success.

[CA-ORIOLE]

If I were behind the plate and saw a catcher try and bring and outside pitch into the strike zone, I'd be more inclined to penalize him with a ball..

That's not pitch framing and yes most umps would not give a call like that.

[weams]

The thing with him, is he always did it with little body movement and sucked in in towards his center mass.

[weams]

It really is an extra four inches when you look at it.

[weams]

This is a fancier attempt.