HHP: MASN/Nats/Orioles case (Inside the Courtroom)

[SteveO]

With the knees, we just could not know before now. And he was never going to bet against himself.

Yup. Now seems like the right time if both parties are interested. I would think the O's are and I believe that Manny is young enough that he would be willing to take a 6 year deal while securing his financial future even more.

All this bull about how he would not want to stay blah blah blah is just that...bull. Manny will sign if the money is right. When you hand a guy 100+ million dollars, they tend to take it on faith that its a sign you want to win somewhat lol

[weams]

This is probably the only one topic (out of hundreds) you and I will never agree on. "Half the market" is an exaggeration though the D.C. wine and cheesers (mocked here often) were closer to 30%. (If half was gone, attendance last year would have been around 1.8M instead of 2.4M.) Be that as it may, attendance dropped nearly 34% between 1997 and 2003 when there was still a team in Montreal. There was a spike in attendance in 2004 when in the offseason the fans assumed the Orioles were spending money with Tejada, Palmeiro, and Lopez added (even though payroll dropped). Over 3X more fans were lost in the year after Ripken retired (412,402) than in the first year of the Nats (119,495). I'm not saying D.C. wasn't a factor but mismanagement from the very top, which led to 14 straight losing years, was a much larger factor.

I am more than ok with this minor disagreement.

[Frobby]

Last weekend there was an article in the Post noting that the Nats hadn't been paid what the RSDC had awarded them, and wondering if their season might have turned out differently if they had "different resources."

While on one level that's a fair question, the Nats have the fifth highest payroll in baseball. So, cry me a river!

[abbott]

Last weekend there was an article in the Post noting that the Nats hadn't been paid what the RSDC had awarded them, and wondering if their season might have turned out differently if they had "different resources."

While on one level that's a fair question, the Nats have the fifth highest payroll in baseball. So, cry me a river!

how is it possible to have the 5th highest payroll in the league, yet have similar revenue to the Orioles. MASN's rights fees to the Nationals, controlled entirely by MASN, are similar to the rights fees awarded to the ORioles, controlled entirely by MASN. Ball park revenue can't be much different between the teams, attendance is fairly equitable. Nationals Park is more expensive than Camden Yards, but the Orioles have a very sweet deal with the State of Maryland who owns Camden Yards.

Again, how is it possible for the Nationals to spend so much more money than the Orioles?

Neither team can shop for a more lucrative deal. If COMCAST SPORTS offered the Orioles 70 million a year for rights, they couldnt take it. So the Orioles are as much a prisoner of MASN as the NAtionals are.

[Frobby]

how is it possible to have the 5th highest payroll in the league, yet have similar revenue to the Orioles. MASN's rights fees to the Nationals, controlled entirely by MASN, are similar to the rights fees awarded to the ORioles, controlled entirely by MASN. Ball park revenue can't be much different between the teams, attendance is fairly equitable. Nationals Park is more expensive than Camden Yards, but the Orioles have a very sweet deal with the State of Maryland who owns Camden Yards.

Again, how is it possible for the Nationals to spend so much more money than the Orioles?

Neither team can shop for a more lucrative deal. If COMCAST SPORTS offered the Orioles 70 million a year for rights, they couldnt take it. So the Orioles are as much a prisoner of MASN as the NAtionals are.

Per Forbes (so take with a grain of salt), the O's had $245 mm of revenue and $60 mm in gate receipts in 2014, while the Nats had $287 mm and $92 mm. The ticket prices at Nats Park are significantly higher, as are concession prices and parking.

[spiritof66]

Per Forbes (so take with a grain of salt), the O's had $245 mm of revenue and $60 mm in gate receipts in 2014, while the Nats had $287 mm and $92 mm. The ticket prices at Nats Park are significantly higher, as are concession prices and parking.

Beat me to it. Bloomberg's figures are consistent with Forbes. They show 2013 gate receipts and total revenues of

$83 million and $230 million for the the Nats, and $52 million and $210 milliohn for the Orioles. The simple fact is that Washington is a much largefr and wealthier market than Baltimore.

[MDtransplant757]

Beat me to it. Bloomberg's figures are consistent with Forbes. They show 2013 gate receipts and total revenues of

$83 million and $230 million for the the Nats, and $52 million and $210 milliohn for the Orioles. The simple fact is that Washington is a much largefr and wealthier market than Baltimore.

That's why Angelos got the Nationals rights in the first place, cause it would hurt business for him. If he fielded a non-competitive team, and the Nats were good, than he lose a ton of money.

[brooksfrankjim]

Beat me to it. Bloomberg's figures are consistent with Forbes. They show 2013 gate receipts and total revenues of

$83 million and $230 million for the the Nats, and $52 million and $210 milliohn for the Orioles. The simple fact is that Washington is a much largefr and wealthier market than Baltimore.

Angelos has artificially limited revenues to support his argument regarding rights fees and the MASN dispute. He wants to win arguments not the championship.

[weams]

Angelos has artificially limited revenues to support his argument regarding rights fees and the MASN dispute. He wants to win arguments not the championship.

And you know this factually how?

[brooksfrankjim]

And you know this factually how?

Little to no increase in ticket prices, concession prices, etc paid by fans and the signage and stadium marketing prices haven't kept pace with increases across MLB. I said in another thread that I have spent some time with Nats owner Mark Lerner and have some insight into these things. Not a fan of Nats at all, but Lerner is far superior business guy than Angelos and his crew. It is a big reason I have such angst with the false narrative that Angelos promotes that Orioles are small market. The other thing that the Forbes and Bloomberg info doesn't show is the distribution of MASN profits. Give or take the Orioles are getting about 85% of the profits right now. I know there is the ongoing dispute, but any suggestion that the Orioles and the franchise can't support a $175 million payroll is garbage.

[weams]

Little to no increase in ticket prices, concession prices, etc paid by fans and the signage and stadium marketing prices haven't kept pace with increases across MLB. I said in another thread that I have spent some time with Nats owner Mark Lerner and have some insight into these things. Not a fan of Nats at all, but Lerner is far superior business guy than Angelos and his crew. It is a big reason I have such angst with the false narrative that Angelos promotes that Orioles are small market. The other thing that the Forbes and Bloomberg info doesn't show is the distribution of MASN profits. Give or take the Orioles are getting about 85% of the profits right now. I know there is the ongoing dispute, but any suggestion that the Orioles and the franchise can't support a $175 million payroll is garbage.

But your knowledge of this grand subterfuge comes from where? As well as the EXACT correct figures of what level of expense is sustainable in the accurate business model?

[Can_of_corn]

Little to no increase in ticket prices, concession prices, etc paid by fans and the signage and stadium marketing prices haven't kept pace with increases across MLB. I said in another thread that I have spent some time with Nats owner Mark Lerner and have some insight into these things. Not a fan of Nats at all, but Lerner is far superior business guy than Angelos and his crew. It is a big reason I have such angst with the false narrative that Angelos promotes that Orioles are small market. The other thing that the Forbes and Bloomberg info doesn't show is the distribution of MASN profits. Give or take the Orioles are getting about 85% of the profits right now. I know there is the ongoing dispute, but any suggestion that the Orioles and the franchise can't support a $175 million payroll is garbage.

So ownership trying to keep the game experience affordable for fans is now a plot?

Wow PA really can do no right in some fan's eyes.

Don't forget he how he refuses to sell the naming rights to the stadium!

[weams]

So ownership trying to keep the game experience affordable for fans is now a plot?

Wow PA really can do no right in some fan's eyes.

Don't forget he how he refuses to sell the naming rights to the stadium!

All data can be modulated.

[Dark Helmet]

So ownership trying to keep the game experience affordable for fans is now a plot?

Wow PA really can do no right in some fan's eyes.

Don't forget he how he refuses to sell the naming rights to the stadium!

I appreciate PA keeping prices reasonable. However, If selling the naming rights of the stadium allowed them to spend more and be more competitive they can call it whatever they want. As I mentioned in another thread, I'd love it if a billionaire like Kevin Plank bought the team. A sports fan who wants to win. They could call it Under Armour Park at Camden Yards if they want. Still be Camden Yards to me.

[DrungoHazewood]

Last weekend there was an article in the Post noting that the Nats hadn't been paid what the RSDC had awarded them, and wondering if their season might have turned out differently if they had "different resources."

While on one level that's a fair question, the Nats have the fifth highest payroll in baseball. So, cry me a river!

Live by a monopolistic manipulation of the market by a group of good ol' boys, die by a monopolistic manipulation of the market by a group of good ol' boys.