HHP: MASN/Nats/Orioles case (Inside the Courtroom)

[brooksfrankjim]

So ownership trying to keep the game experience affordable for fans is now a plot?

Wow PA really can do no right in some fan's eyes.

Don't forget he how he refuses to sell the naming rights to the stadium!

Lerner prices things to what the market can bear with the express purpose of winning a championship. Angelos has managed the Orioles differently. He isn't committed to winning. Hoping to win and committing to win are two different things. You can argue whether or not they were smart contracts but Lerner has at least 3 $100 million contracts on his books and they really haven't lost a major home grown or long term player. I would trade Angelos for Lerner any day of the week because we would be a much better franchise and have a chance to win. You can support Angelos all you want but the beauty of sports is that you have these things called wins and losses. Angelos has a record during his stewardship and by any measure it is abysmal.

[weams]

Lerner prices things to what the market can bear with the express purpose of winning a championship. Angelos has managed the Orioles differently. He isn't committed to winning. Hoping to win and committing to win are two different things. You can argue whether or not they were smart contracts but Lerner has at least 3 $100 million contracts on his books and they really haven't lost a major home grown or long term player. I would trade Angelos for Lerner any day of the week because we would be a much better franchise and have a chance to win. You can support Angelos all you want but the beauty of sports is that you have these things called wins and losses. Angelos has a record during his stewardship and by any measure it is abysmal.

Remind me when Lerner has won a playoff series?

[DrungoHazewood]

So ownership trying to keep the game experience affordable for fans is now a plot?

Wow PA really can do no right in some fan's eyes.

Don't forget he how he refuses to sell the naming rights to the stadium!

A real owner screws the fans in the short term so that they'll come back happy to pay much more to see the World Series run guaranteed by the higher payroll.

[DrungoHazewood]

Remind me when Lerner has won a playoff series?

Like Dave Cameron has said, it's a shame when teams that do everything right still lose. Baseball needs to tie success to payroll more than it is now, so teams willing to spend get more of a guarantee. MLB should be more like the EPL, where lower-payroll teams like the Orioles count it as a success when they finish in 14th place and avoid getting sent to the International League.

[weams]

Like Dave Cameron has said, it's a shame when teams that do everything right still lose. Baseball needs to tie success to payroll more than it is now, so teams willing to spend get more of a guarantee. MLB should be more like the EPL, where lower-payroll teams like the Orioles count it as a success when they finish in 14th place and avoid getting sent to the International League.

They should handicap the regular season and the playoff's based on total financial commitment.

[DrungoHazewood]

Lerner prices things to what the market can bear with the express purpose of winning a championship. Angelos has managed the Orioles differently. He isn't committed to winning. Hoping to win and committing to win are two different things. You can argue whether or not they were smart contracts but Lerner has at least 3 $100 million contracts on his books and they really haven't lost a major home grown or long term player. I would trade Angelos for Lerner any day of the week because we would be a much better franchise and have a chance to win. You can support Angelos all you want but the beauty of sports is that you have these things called wins and losses. Angelos has a record during his stewardship and by any measure it is abysmal.

a) Angelos' tenure as owner has mostly been poor. 1998-2011 was a wasteland.

b) The issue all of the Spend More Now Because Is Shows You Love Winning crowd has always had is this assumption, backed by bits and pieces of the picture, that the Orioles could and should sustainably support a much higher payroll. But there are few facts to be seen, certainly nothing close to an open book on the Orioles' finances. And, no, "I've had some conversations with Lerner" isn't going to cut it.

[DrungoHazewood]

They should handicap the regular season and the playoff's based on total financial commitment.

Right, like they have a virtual 200-game season, and you buy wins in the extra 38 games by showing your desire to win with payroll. Highest payroll in the game starts April 1st with a 38-0 record.

[Can_of_corn]

Lerner prices things to what the market can bear with the express purpose of winning a championship. Angelos has managed the Orioles differently. He isn't committed to winning. Hoping to win and committing to win are two different things. You can argue whether or not they were smart contracts but Lerner has at least 3 $100 million contracts on his books and they really haven't lost a major home grown or long term player. I would trade Angelos for Lerner any day of the week because we would be a much better franchise and have a chance to win. You can support Angelos all you want but the beauty of sports is that you have these things called wins and losses. Angelos has a record during his stewardship and by any measure it is abysmal.

So you don't think Lerner is interested in turning a profit?

Personally I see the Nats making moves to control their payroll which is odd if Lerner is just worried about a title.

[brooksfrankjim]

Lerner has 2 division titles in 9 full season of ownership and with a miracle this year could make it 3 in 9. Angelos has 2 in 20+ years. Angelos also has 14 consecutive losing seasons. So the fact that Lerner hasn't won a playoff series is a useless fact. To date, neither has won a world series which is the objective.

[Can_of_corn]

Lerner has 2 division titles in 9 full season of ownership and with a miracle this year could make it 3 in 9. Angelos has 2 in 20+ years. Angelos also has 14 consecutive losing seasons. So the fact that Lerner hasn't won a playoff series is a useless fact. To date, neither has won a world series which is the objective.

He also has more dead last finishes then Angelos ( 2-0)

[TonySoprano]

He also has more dead last finishes then Angelos ( 2-0)

Would you trade records with them since 2005? The Orioles finished dead last in their division from 2008-11.

[Can_of_corn]

Would you trade records with them since 2005? The Orioles finished dead last in their division from 2008-11.

Can you imagine this board with back to back last place overall finishes?

And to answer your question, I think the 2012 season was more enjoyable then any year the Nationals have had, so I will keep what we had.

[BradyBunch]

I appreciate PA keeping prices reasonable. However, If selling the naming rights of the stadium allowed them to spend more and be more competitive they can call it whatever they want. As I mentioned in another thread, I'd love it if a billionaire like Kevin Plank bought the team. A sports fan who wants to win. They could call it Under Armour Park at Camden Yards if they want. Still be Camden Yards to me.

Two things. Look at the stadium deal. Maryland get a at least 25% of sponsor money.

Nats don't have that issue. There stadium is paid through taxes on tickets and businesses.

[MDtransplant757]

Two things. Look at the stadium deal. Maryland get a at least 25% of sponsor money.

Nats don't have that issue. There stadium is paid through taxes on tickets and businesses.

Which will hurt the DC economy for business' working there. Nats should have saved up and built a stadium, IE Gillette Stadium, AT&T Park, etc. The ball team makes more money in the long run, so they don't have to give up sponsor money that could help put a competitive team on the field.

[TonySoprano]

Can you imagine this board with back to back last place overall finishes?

And to answer your question, I think the 2012 season was more enjoyable then any year the Nationals have had, so I will keep what we had.

O's 2008 74-88, 2009 70-92 both last in the division. Nats 2008 59-102, 2009 59-103.

Yeah, imagine the board dreaming about what they would do with the overall #1 pick in 2009-10. The O's drafted 5th and 3rd overall respectively, such a huge difference, right? Here are the 1st round picks from 2005-13. Notice in 6 of the 9 years, the O's picked first meaning they had the worst record of the two.

2005 Nats 4 R. Zimmerman O’s 13 Snyder

2006 O’s 9 Rowell, Nats 15 Marrero

2007 O’s 4 Wieters, Nats 5 Detwiler

2008 O’s 4 Matusz Nats 9 Crow

2009 Nats 1 Strasburg, O’s 5 Hobgood

2010 Nats 1 Harper, O’s 3 Machado

2011 O’s 4 Bundy, Nats 6 Rendon

2012 O’s 4 Gausman, Nats 13 Giolito

2013 O’s 23 Harvey, Nats - pick to NYY (Soriano)