Roch: Penn Cut

[tywright]

Never stated that. Check if you like. If you are unwilling to look at all of his current stats, then yes, however, you will come to a faulty conclusion.

I did look at all his current stats...which takes into account his poor AFL season and his handful of starts in Aug/Sept. Take a look back in what I posted. I'm not "cherry picking" as you are claiming... I'm stating fact. He's 18 months past his 2006 performance...get in the NOW!

[Mackus]

I did look at all his current stats...which takes into account his poor AFL season and his handful of starts in Aug/Sept. Take a look back in what I posted. I'm not "cherry picking" as you are claiming... I'm stating fact. He's 18 months past his 2006 performance...get in the NOW!

Penn doesn't have any current stats. At least not any that really matter.

He was coming back from surgery last year. He pitched 5 innings this spring. That's not gonna tell you very much either way.

[tywright]

This is flat out incorrect.

The Orioles said why they demoted him, and it was the exact reason many deduced on here as the only logical explanation.

They feel he is behind physically and needs to work on getting extra innings under his belt in order to be ready for the MLB rotation in a couple months if needed. The guys who are already locks for the rotation plus the final two or three guys vying for the 5th starter's spot are going to be taking up most of the MLB ST innings, so the only place for Penn to get consistent work will be in Sarasota.

If the minor and major league complexes were close, we'd see Penn pitching in both from here on out, but since they are many hours away, this he can't shuffle back and forth.

Sending him down had nothing to do with the way he's pitched, but rather their view of his current physical condition and how best to get him in shape to crack the MLB rotation.

How do you know that is NOT incorrect. Have you seen him pitch? How's his command? His secondary pitches? All I can go on is his AFL numbers and 5 IP in ST. If he was pitching to his top talent level, I guarantee he would still be in camp. The same goes for Olson, Liz, Albers, etc. Penn was given his chance to regain his form in a less stressful arena...the minor league camp.

[tywright]

Penn doesn't have any current stats. At least not any that really matter.

He was coming back from surgery last year. He pitched 5 innings this spring. That's not gonna tell you very much either way.

So you are throwing away his AFL stats? I'd think he was healthy if he pitched there. Same goes for his 5-6 starts last Aug/Sept.

[amateurfan]

I did look at all his current stats...which takes into account his poor AFL season and his handful of starts in Aug/Sept. Take a look back in what I posted. I'm not "cherry picking" as you are claiming... I'm stating fact. He's 18 months past his 2006 performance...get in the NOW!

This is the last response - look at all of his stats, not just his Ks. If you only look at one stat you get an incomplete picture. Furthermore, some people succeed by groundouts, popouts, and strikeouts. There are different types of pitchers. In a different thread this was already examined. He's also got 0 BB, and only 3 H in those 5 innings. By looking at strikeouts alone you came to the faulty conclussion "That's why he's not very good right now." If you look at the stats I pointed out, you cannot help but come to a different conclusion. Either way, the ST sample size is still too small. He was not good in the AFL until his last start: 0.00 0 5.0IP 5H 0R 1BB 5K. His AFL stint, too, provides only a small sample size.

Anyways, my feeling is that he's the one whose job it is to lose. He can't go back down. They sent him there to warm up. They gave him enough innings to allow him to feel good about himself, which he should after his performances in ST, and to show him that he can succeed. When he comes up in the Spring, he isn't going down.

[Mackus]

So you are throwing away his AFL stats? I'd think he was healthy if he pitched there. Same goes for his 5-6 starts last Aug/Sept.

Healthy enough to pitch and in top or even decent form are not the same.

[Mackus]

If he was pitching to his top talent level, I guarantee he would still be in camp.

He wasn't given an opportunity to show he was pitching at his top level. This was the plan for Penn all along, which is why most of the media never mentioned him as a serious candidate for the 5th starter's job. They had no intentions of him starting in Baltimore, just wanted to get him some time at the MLB camp and then send him to Sarasota to finish his work when the innings became scarce at Ft. Lauderdale.

[Old#5fan]

Most of your posts are derided because you offer no logical explanation for them. If I just randomly posted that "Melvin Mora no longer has what it takes, he's done, believe me, I know what I'm talking about. Please don't question this." I'd get derided, too.

I don't post like that. I always explain my posts but apparently some here don't take the time to read them all but rather choose to jump to wrong conclusions. I always give my reasons why I like or dislike a player. You are dead wrong if you think otherwise. Now, maybe I don't post a bunch of stats but I don't need stats to prove what I can see with my own two eyes! And besides not giving stats doesn't necessarily equate to not giving a valid reason..

[The Wedge]

I don't post like that. I always explain my posts but apparently some here don't take the time to read them all but rather choose to jump to wrong conclusions. I always give my reasons why I like or dislike a player. You are dead wrong if you think otherwise. Now, maybe I don't post a bunch of stats but I don't need stats to prove what I can see with my own two eyes! And besides not giving stats doesn't necessarily equate to not giving a valid reason..

That's what stats are for, though, to qualify what you see.

[CrimsonTribe]

I don't post like that. I always explain my posts but apparently some here don't take the time to read them all but rather choose to jump to wrong conclusions. I always give my reasons why I like or dislike a player. You are dead wrong if you think otherwise. Now, maybe I don't post a bunch of stats but I don't need stats to prove what I can see with my own two eyes! And besides not giving stats doesn't necessarily equate to not giving a valid reason..

He said logical explanation.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't post like that. I always explain my posts but apparently some here don't take the time to read them all but rather choose to jump to wrong conclusions. I always give my reasons why I like or dislike a player. You are dead wrong if you think otherwise. Now, maybe I don't post a bunch of stats but I don't need stats to prove what I can see with my own two eyes! And besides not giving stats doesn't necessarily equate to not giving a valid reason..

How many times have you seen Penn pitch with your own two eyes?

[Pedro Cerrano]

How many times have you seen Penn pitch with your own two eyes?

Countless times since he was 4 years old, obv.

[Old#5fan]

That's what stats are for, though, to qualify what you see.

I understand that but there is not a stat for everything. If you saw Howard Cosell's toupee fly off during a windy baseball game would there be a stat for that? I don't think so but we all would laugh if we saw it and we know what we saw correct?

They also don't keep a stat or list for stupidity or negligence by baseball players that I know of. If so, Penn would be on the list as would Marty Cordova, Glenn Davis, Jason Johnson, to name a few. Penn would also be on the "attitude" list or at least would have been on it at one point in time. Believe me, no young player should want to be on either list much less both.

[Old#5fan]

How many times have you seen Penn pitch with your own two eyes?

Penn's problems have been well documented. Apparently he has fallen from grace in the eyes of the Orioles organization and I for one, certainly understand why. Apparently some of you are a bit slow on the uptake for some reason though.

Sending him down was a no brainer IMO.

[Joe'sO's]

I think they made their minds up before spring training who the pitchers would be that came north. Only unforeseen circumstances would change it.

You heard Trembley say Sarfate had to pitch his way off the team for example. Another example was Burres would make the team because they were familar with him from last year. We know they wern't going to give the rule 5 guy up based on spring training. They would look foolish sending Albers out after Patton crashed and burned.So there was a very small margin for Penn,Hoey,Olson or Liz to make the team because they already decided who was going to. There was no real competition.

No real competition for the position players either unless you count the Fahey/Hernandez thing and even then Fahey isn't seriously being considered for the everyday job. Bynum was going to be the utility guy until he got injured. No real competition at back up catcher either. Trembley's going along with the program because he doesn't have any clout as a first year manager.

Yeah, the Roberts deal is more likely now with Loewen's situation. Just hope they don't take Marquis instead of Gallager.