Dylan Bundy (Begins Throwing Program)

[Stotle]

Who has cost what HenryU and Alvarez did that is a premium talent?

And you bring up a good point. Schoop wasn't a top talent but they developed him into one. Reyes looks like the next one. They took a top guy and it failed. The "premium" talent doesn't succeed as much as some people make it seem.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

If you take the total pool of players that received Julio Urias money and the number of players that received Jomar Reyes money, which do you think results in 1) a higher rate of return and 2) a higher success rate?

[Rene88]

"No prospect should be untouchable"

Amen

http://eutawstreetreport.com/dylan-bundy-hunter-harvey-injuries-baltimore-orioles-pitching-development/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jjnono]

"No prospect should be untouchable"

Amen

http://eutawstreetreport.com/dylan-bundy-hunter-harvey-injuries-baltimore-orioles-pitching-development/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right. No one should be untouchable. Ever. I advocated for trading Bundy this offseason in some sort of package to Colorado for Cargo Gonzalez. :roll eyes: Well, that would have been a disaster for both sides. But Bundy at this point can't be much more than an appetizer in a bigger deal. Tommy John and now being shut down for calcification buildup in his shoulder. That's one fragile throwing arm. What realistic value does he have to anyone other than the Os? Better hope for the best.

[FanSince88]

Did Manny have a brother that was hurt since being drafted as well?

I get your point, but just playing devil's advocate here.

We HAD to draft Bundy. If he is a failure, so be it. My point is that we need some better people assessing these folks. We can't seem to develop a pitcher, trade away ones that are good and sit on ones that may never pitch again. It would be nice that we had some trade or draftee other than Manny to hang out hat on other than Manny and the Bedard deal. We need to get better at assessment.

How is it we can find the Jimmy P's or Steve Pearces or Chris Parmalee of the world, but we don't know that Jake Arrietta just needs a small adjustment?

I just feel like we are missing something.....and honestly I don't know what it is.

(and yes I am frustrated, but just because I want us to succeed and not be on the end of this sad stories)

Arrieta's "adjustment" was pitching in the NL Central.

[FanSince88]

I'll take a friendly wager he won't pitch more than 40 innings between this year and next.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll go you both one better and wager that he won't throw a single minor or major league pitch.

[Rene88]

Arrieta's "adjustment" was pitching in the NL Central.

I am not sure that was the only thing:)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rene88]

I'll go you both one better and wager that he won't throw a single minor or major league pitch.

Agree 100%.

Bobby Bundy was coming off injury this season too. Earlier in the offseason there was even talk of him being one of the 5 starters with his brother.

Man, depressing.

At least they are rich.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crazysilver03]

Agree 100%.

Bobby Bundy was coming off injury this season too. Earlier in the offseason there was even talk of him being one of the 5 starters with his brother.

Man, depressing.

At least they are rich.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There was 0 serious discussion of Bobby Bundy being one of the starters at the majors.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[FanSince88]

I am not sure that was the only thing:)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perhaps, but I tend to think that most of his improvement was probably due to exogenous factors. The NL Central definitely helped, but maybe also less pressure to win on a bad Cubs team last year and in 2013 helped him relax and clear his head. Or maybe he just likes the food there better. But considering how rapidly he improved for the Cubs, I've gotta think that it was more mental, less mechanical and physical, issues that contributed to his improvement. Mostly stuff that I think the Orioles has little control over.

To put it another way, I have little doubt that Arrieta would have remained awful had he stayed with the O's. For some reason this town/organization just wasn't for him.

[Stotle]

Perhaps, but I tend to think that most of his improvement was probably due to exogenous factors. The NL Central definitely helped, but maybe also less pressure to win on a bad Cubs team last year and in 2013 helped him relax and clear his head. Or maybe he just likes the food there better. But considering how rapidly he improved for the Cubs, I've gotta think that it was more mental, less mechanical and physical, issues that contributed to his improvement. Mostly stuff that I think the Orioles has little control over.

To put it another way, I have little doubt that Arrieta would have remained awful had he stayed with the O's. For some reason this town/organization just wasn't for him.

Initial returns were driven by different pitch selection (which I believe the Cubs had in mind when acquiring him). He's since implemented further mechanical changes and a broader overhaul in different areas.

[mdbdotcom]

I could be totally off base with this, but it seems to me that when the Orioles draft a pitcher, instead of letting the pitcher work with what made him successful in high school or college, they try to mold him into something else. Don't throw the cutter. Get quicker to the plate. Change your delivery. Maybe they need to let pitchers evolve into who they want them to be instead of trying to create the perfect pitcher. Whatever they are doing, it hasn't worked so far.

[DrungoHazewood]

Right. No one should be untouchable. Ever. I advocated for trading Bundy this offseason in some sort of package to Colorado for Cargo Gonzalez. :roll eyes: Well, that would have been a disaster for both sides. But Bundy at this point can't be much more than an appetizer in a bigger deal. Tommy John and now being shut down for calcification buildup in his shoulder. That's one fragile throwing arm. What realistic value does he have to anyone other than the Os? Better hope for the best.

Okay, no, in some abstract, theoretical sense no one should ever be untouchable. Although some players like Manny should be close to that. Yes, if someone comes in and offers you three cost-controlled all stars for your #1 prospect, yea, go for it. But in the real world there are players who you would do well do demand an absolutely overwhelming offer that is exceptionally unlikely to ever be met. When you have the #1, or close to the #1 pitching prospect in baseball and you're not the Yanks/Sox/Dodgers sitting on a pot of gold, you have to keep that guy most of the time and hope he works out. Because having young guys producing at a high level while they're cheap is the only way to make the budget math work out.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'd think teams prefer the current system, where you spend $6-10 MM a year in exchange for really cheap labor and get to lock-up the talent before most of them have any real leverage.

Probably. But I still think it would be interesting to see the alternate universe where the only affiliated teams were a AAA taxi squad, and everyone else is in college or the independent minors.

It's a trade between signing everyone and developing everyone and taking on the risk of everyone, and just going out and bidding for what you need or really want. Yes, it would be harder to have the balancing effect of the draft that way - the Yanks would be much more able to sign the high-end talent. But they could always cap spending on minor league talent, or even have a sliding budget scale based on reverse order of standings.

Right now teams accept that they're going to pay, say, $2M for their first-round pick and the rate of return on that is low. There's probably a 50% (?) chance that pick never becomes a good major leaguer, and in later rounds that percentage goes up exponentially. If you let the players develop in the minors for several years you will pay more, in some cases much more, but you'll also lower the risk/increase the certainty of getting someone good. In the case of pitchers you'll get most of the way to the age 25 injury nexus without risking anything, and you'll predominantly be buying the guys who managed to not get hurt or have already gotten through their TJ surgery.

Also, one of the reasons the majors bought out the minors in the 1910-30 period was the fear of another competing league. Like the Federal League. That fear is gone now. It's almost impossible to start a new major league. So they can relax their grip on the talent without the concern that they'll be directly competing against that talent.

[Rene88]

There was 0 serious discussion of Bobby Bundy being one of the starters at the majors.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

No, in the Bowie rotation. He was originally projected there before injuries again.

[Rene88]

I could be totally off base with this, but it seems to me that when the Orioles draft a pitcher, instead of letting the pitcher work with what made him successful in high school or college, they try to mold him into something else. Don't throw the cutter. Get quicker to the plate. Change your delivery. Maybe they need to let pitchers evolve into who they want them to be instead of trying to create the perfect pitcher. Whatever they are doing, it hasn't worked so far.

Great post. I am not smart enough to know what they are doing wrong, but they clearly are doing something wrong (not with Bundy per se but in general).