Drum beat a little louder for Cubs deal

[Cubsfan]

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2008/03/policing-the-cu.html

"Is Piniella playing games to force deal for Orioles' Roberts?

Felix Pie still hasn't proven he can hit major-league pitching, so I can't think of a worse spot to bat him than in front of the pitcher, but that's where Cubs manager Lou Piniella had him Tuesday in what figures to be the regular lineup wrote Steve Rosenbloom of the Chicago Tribune.

Rosenbloom wonders if that's really Piniella's lineup or a subtle way of holding general manager Jim Hendry's prized center fielder hostage. Hendry, see, has to produce a regular after all this blather about a farm system. Pie has gotten the most hype, although catcher Geovany Soto looks to be most ready and Ryan Theriot seems to earn Hendry no credit for some reason.

Whatever, Pie will never get good pitches hitting eighth and he's certainly not someone you'd put near the top of the lineup unless you were being held at gunpoint. So, I'm thinking Piniella's lineup — for now — is meant to prompt Hendry to overpay for Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts. And do it right now."

Generally, you put your weakest hitter 8th in the lineup. As of now, Pie (until he proves himself) is that person. Also, batting 8th takes a lot of pressure off of a young hitter. I don't see it as any kind of conspiracy, just putting pieces in place.

[blueberryale77]

April 2, 1976 -- Oakland Athletics trade Reggie Jackson, Ken Holtzman and a minor leaguer to the Baltimore Orioles for Don Baylor, Mike Torrez and Paul Mitchell.

A) Reggie Jackson's infamous clubhouse cancer status probably had a lot to do with that one (in other words the A's found themselves in a situation with a superstar that they really needed to move for less than his market value would have been based on pure statistics).

B) That's not exactly in the modern era. Brian Roberts wasn't even born when that happened.

[Hank Scorpio]

Virtually everything on this board is speculation. All we can do is speculate about how rational human beings *might* react to a known set of circumstances. If you're so against this speculation, why are you trying to prove me wrong? Your examples don't exactly speak to how a prominent free agent with options would behave. Steve Trachsel couldn't have gotten a near guarantee of a starting job (and possibly even an opening day start) anywhere else. Quiroz, etc, are looking for the place they have the best chance to stay in the majors all year, period. A free agent in high demand can afford to consider a lot more factors. Like Peace said, name one example of a situation from any other team similar to the Brian Roberts to the Cubs situation. There isn't one. This saga is making the Orioles even more of a national laughingstock.

No, this saga is driving BlueberryAle crazy because of the perceived strife it's putting on Brian Roberts.

[NewMarketSean]

Yeah, this is nothing.

They do need to get this deal done though. And really, if we can get Murton instead of Pie, I would do it. The more I hear about Pie, the more I feel he's going to be a bust.

[blueberryale77]

While this is apples and oranges, I'll indulge you by saying that it depends on how much they cost.

Who's the other Brian Roberts this offseason? What available 2nd base lead off man has his make-up and ability?

You're a smart young lady. You know this is a weak argument, and I really try not to give you too much grief about your incessant sympathy posts about Roberts because I know you have a soft spot for him... but I would hope you'd put your Orioles fandom ahead of your affections for one piece of the collective puzzle.

MacPhail is doing exactly what he should do in this circumstance. Is it slightly inconvenient for the managers of the teams that it's 2/3 through spring training? I guess... but we see trades during the actual season all the time, so what's the difference?

It is not a weak argument. We're talking about whether this trade will affect other team's willingness to deal with MacPhail in the future. You can't deny that these negotiations have been unusual to say the least. In any kind of business, executives watch how their competitors do business and make future decisions based, in part, on how easy or difficult it appears to be to deal with them.

[Mike B]

Generally, you put your weakest hitter 8th in the lineup. As of now, Pie (until he proves himself) is that person. Also, batting 8th takes a lot of pressure off of a young hitter. I don't see it as any kind of conspiracy, just putting pieces in place.

Agreed, sounds like the reporter is trying to stir up s**t. His next job could be working for the Baltimore Sun. Pie 8th makes sense to me. In addition to not be proven, he is very fast and it makes it easier for the pitcher to bump him over when he is on base.

[blueberryale77]

Generally, you put your weakest hitter 8th in the lineup. As of now, Pie (until he proves himself) is that person. Also, batting 8th takes a lot of pressure off of a young hitter. I don't see it as any kind of conspiracy, just putting pieces in place.

So where is the writer suggesting Pie would hit if the Cubs got Roberts? I guess that he'd put Theriot behind Pie? That's not exactly a huge amount of protection.

[amateurfan]

Virtually everything on this board is speculation. All we can do is speculate about how rational human beings *might* react to a known set of circumstances. If you're so against this speculation, why are you trying to prove me wrong? Your examples don't exactly speak to how a prominent free agent with options would behave. Steve Trachsel couldn't have gotten a near guarantee of a starting job (and possibly even an opening day start) anywhere else. Quiroz, etc, are looking for the place they have the best chance to stay in the majors all year, period. A free agent in high demand can afford to consider a lot more factors. Like Peace said, name one example of a situation from any other team similar to the Brian Roberts to the Cubs situation. There isn't one. This saga is making the Orioles even more of a national laughingstock.

This first part is irrelevant. I'm not concerned about what other teams are doing. I'm concerned about what AM is doing. If his actions fail to bring in talented players through FA, or development, or trades, then it's open season on him. Just because Stark writes of Hendry being held hostage doesn't mean it's so , and I don't even care what Hendry thinks or feels. There isn't one way to build a baseball team. Who looks more the fool - Hendry in his teenage suitor ways who won't grow a backbone, or AM for teasing him along? If Hendry wants out, he can get out.

The second part is just not true, and you chose not to use speculative language like before: could, would, maybe. Just because you think that the Orioles are a laughingstock doesn't mean anything. I have a totally different opinion, and I know others do, too.

In fact, and this isn't conjecture, I've read reports of scouts and other fawning over the Orioles return for Bedard, their current outfield, and the job that AM is doing. That doesn't seem to me to be the work of a laughingstocker.

[Hank Scorpio]

It is not a weak argument. We're talking about whether this trade will affect other team's willingness to deal with MacPhail in the future. You can't deny that these negotiations have been unusual to say the least. In any kind of business, executives watch how their competitors do business and make future decisions based, in part, on how easy or difficult it appears to be to deal with them.

Weren't we talking about this same thing when the Bedard drama was going on?

Of course we were. I will say this again... If we have players that other teams want, THEY WILL ALWAYS DEAL WITH US.

Period.

[ACE]

A) Reggie Jackson's infamous clubhouse cancer status probably had a lot to do with that one (in other words the A's found themselves in a situation with a superstar that they really needed to move for less than his market value would have been based on pure statistics).

B) That's not exactly in the modern era. Brian Roberts wasn't even born when that happened.

March 30, 1992 – The Chicago White Sox trades outfielder Sammy Sosa and pitcher Ken Patterson to the Chicago Cubs for outfielder George Bell

March 20, 2006 - Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena

[sangar]

It is not a weak argument. We're talking about whether this trade will affect other team's willingness to deal with MacPhail in the future. You can't deny that these negotiations have been unusual to say the least. In any kind of business, executives watch how their competitors do business and make future decisions based, in part, on how easy or difficult it appears to be to deal with them.

I don't think the future (in the context you refer to) is relevant to this situation and I doubt that AM has given it the slightest consideration. We only had one Tejada, one Bedard and one Roberts and AM has only one shot to set this team right. The man plays a mean game of poker and has every intention of walking away with the most chips.

[fire83]

March 30, 1992 – The Chicago White Sox trades outfielder Sammy Sosa and pitcher Ken Patterson to the Chicago Cubs for outfielder George Bell

March 20, 2006 - Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena

How about a little closer to home for Cubs fans.

March 27th of 1984 Cubs acquire Gary Matthews and Bobby Dernier from the Phillies.

I think the deal will get done before opening day.

[ugadawg38]

I just think its bush league and bad business. Its March 20th. Opening Day is just a few days away, and we are still talking offers and scouting. I think the do dillagence(sp) is getting old.

I concur which is why I think Jayson Stark might be correct...

[davearm]

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2008/03/policing-the-cu.html

"Is Piniella playing games to force deal for Orioles' Roberts?

Felix Pie still hasn't proven he can hit major-league pitching, so I can't think of a worse spot to bat him than in front of the pitcher, but that's where Cubs manager Lou Piniella had him Tuesday in what figures to be the regular lineup wrote Steve Rosenbloom of the Chicago Tribune.

Rosenbloom wonders if that's really Piniella's lineup or a subtle way of holding general manager Jim Hendry's prized center fielder hostage. Hendry, see, has to produce a regular after all this blather about a farm system. Pie has gotten the most hype, although catcher Geovany Soto looks to be most ready and Ryan Theriot seems to earn Hendry no credit for some reason.

Whatever, Pie will never get good pitches hitting eighth and he's certainly not someone you'd put near the top of the lineup unless you were being held at gunpoint. So, I'm thinking Piniella's lineup — for now — is meant to prompt Hendry to overpay for Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts. And do it right now."

If one wanted to paint a picture of Piniella "playing games to force deal for Orioles' Roberts," then the place to start is not with Piniella batting Felix Pie eighth.

Where to start is with Piniella batting Theriot first.

And frankly I had the same reaction to that development: "OK Jim, if you're not going to get this Roberts thing done and give me the lineup I need, then I'm going to bat Theriot in the leadoff spot instead. Take that!"

Theriot has the ability to steal a base, but beyond that he's hands down the Cubs' worst hitter. A smart manager doesn't give his worst hitter the most PAs, it's that simple.

Of course the whole premise that Piniella would tank it once the regular season begins, just to stick it to Hendry, is pretty comical to begin with.

[fire83]

This first part is irrelevant. I'm not concerned about what other teams are doing. I'm concerned about what AM is doing. If his actions fail to bring in talented players through FA, or development, or trades, then it's open season on him. Just because Stark writes of Hendry being held hostage doesn't mean it's so , and I don't even care what Hendry thinks or feels. There isn't one way to build a baseball team. Who looks more the fool - Hendry in his teenage suitor ways who won't grow a backbone, or AM for teasing him along? If Hendry wants out, he can get out. The second part is just not true, and you chose not to use speculative language like before: could, would, maybe. Just because you think that the Orioles are a laughingstock doesn't mean anything. I have a totally different opinion, and I know others do, too.

In fact, and this isn't conjecture, I've read reports of scouts and other fawning over the Orioles return for Bedard, their current outfield, and the job that AM is doing. That doesn't seem to me to be the work of a laughingstocker.

It really has nothing to do with who looks like a fool or not. Anyone who knows anything about the Cubs and Hendry knows typicaly he gets who he wants and will patiently wait until it gets done. There are several examples of this. Maddux before the 04' season;

Cubs fans were getting frustrated by how long it took, but he got him right before spring training.

Ramirez signs the final minutes before free agency. Last year it was the Cubs were going to lose Zambrano, but Hendry stood in and got a deal done. Then this year with Fukudome. Hendry let several other FA's sign elsewhere and kept waiting until Fukudome committed to coming to the U.S.

I believe the deal will be done. IMO the O's are looking at exactly who they want from the Cubs from a list given to AM by Hendry. Of course I am only speculating, but considering AM and JH have a good relationship, I do not see one holding the other hostage. However, O's fans will disagree with me, but IMO this time taken by the O's to actually pull the trigger on a deal will hurt them in the future. Not all GM will be willing to wait while the O's FO consider deals for way longer then need be. Again, this is just my opinion.