Drum beat a little louder for Cubs deal

[davearm]

It's pretty widely understood that several teams/GMs either try hard to avoid dealing with Scott Boras, or just flat out refuse to consider any player he represents. In fact the O's themselves were in this category until just recently.

When Chuck LaMar was GM of the DRays, he also gained a reputation as being a guy that some other GMs just don't bother with.

Obviously what's being speculated here is that MacPhail has put himself at risk of being categorized similarly within the industry.

Personally I think it's more accurate to say that MacPhail is simply reinforcing the long-existing reputation the O's organization has gathered over many years -- dysfunctional, meddlesome owner, difficult to deal with, etc.

Many felt MacPhail would come in and put an end to all of that, but from where I'm sitting anyway, it seems the opposite is true. All of the same old whispers are being heard once again.

[amateurfan]

It's pretty widely understood that several teams/GMs either try hard to avoid dealing with Scott Boras, or just flat out refuse to consider any player he represents. In fact the O's themselves were in this category until just recently.

When Chuck LaMar was GM of the DRays, he also gained a reputation as being a guy that some other GMs just don't bother with.

Obviously what's being speculated here is that MacPhail has put himself at risk of being categorized similarly within the industry.

Personally I think it's more accurate to say that MacPhail is simply reinforcing the long-existing reputation the O's organization has gathered over many years -- dysfunctional, meddlesome owner, difficult to deal with, etc.

Many felt MacPhail would come in and put an end to all of that, but from where I'm sitting anyway, it seems the opposite is true. All of the same old whispers are being heard once again.

Rodrigo Lopez and Corey Patterson are and were Boras clients. I don't see the point.

[JTrea81]

Many felt MacPhail would come in and put an end to all of that, but from where I'm sitting anyway, it seems the opposite is true. All of the same old whispers are being heard once again.

And those whispers are just being made up by the media because they are speculating due to MacPhail not letting anything leak out. He's already said that he is running things by Angelos and that Angelos has let him do everything he wants. The Orioles wouldn't be doing all this scouting if Angelos had said no to trading Roberts.

As far as the frustration that the Cubs are feeling, MacPhail is just waiting them out, just like he did with the Mariners and Bedard. Hendry knows how MacPhail operates. That it is coming down to the wire should be no surprise...

[Sports Guy]

It's pretty widely understood that several teams/GMs either try hard to avoid dealing with Scott Boras, or just flat out refuse to consider any player he represents. In fact the O's themselves were in this category until just recently.

When Chuck LaMar was GM of the DRays, he also gained a reputation as being a guy that some other GMs just don't bother with.

Obviously what's being speculated here is that MacPhail has put himself at risk of being categorized similarly within the industry.

Personally I think it's more accurate to say that MacPhail is simply reinforcing the long-existing reputation the O's organization has gathered over many years -- dysfunctional, meddlesome owner, difficult to deal with, etc.

Many felt MacPhail would come in and put an end to all of that, but from where I'm sitting anyway, it seems the opposite is true. All of the same old whispers are being heard once again.

LOL...What a bunch of bs.

If anyone looks at the Orioles in the same way right now as they did last year, they are morons and have no idea what is going on.

[ACE]

Rodrigo Lopez and Corey Patterson are and were Boras clients. I don't see the point.

Patterson (acquired via trade) and Lopez both were under team contract to a certain extent with the Orioles. Boras impact was limited due to arbitration system in place.

More to the point, the point that I think was being presented, is that it is not unheard of for agents, gms and organizations to be so difficult to deal that teams simple stop trying.

[davearm]

Rodrigo Lopez and Corey Patterson are and were Boras clients. I don't see the point.

The rubber meets the road on this one with draft picks (especially highend ones) and free agents, and on this score, the O's have historically avoided Boras clients like the plague.

The only negotiations the O's had with Patterson and Lopez were in arbitration. Both sides pretty well have their hands tied in that setting, since salary ranges are essentially regulated by the system.

The best counterexample is Matt Wieters, not Patterson and Lopez. As I said, that represents a recent change in course for the O's.

[davearm]

LOL...What a bunch of bs.

If anyone looks at the Orioles in the same way right now as they did last year, they are morons and have no idea what is going on.

Let me clarify.

It's clear to see that the O's organization has changed course as far as rebuilding goes. The blueprint they're using is a much different one since MacPhail took over.

What's being discussed here is something different than that. How they go about implementing the blueprint via trades seems mostly unchanged.

[JTrea81]

The best counterexample is Matt Wieters, not Patterson and Lopez. As I said, that represents a recent change in course for the O's.

As does:

- Paying draft picks more than slot to sign

- Trading Tejada and Bedard for prospects (and soon Roberts)

- Establishing an academy in the Dominican

- Scouting Asian countries

- Restablishing an "Oriole Way" thoroughout the organization

- Not signing mediocre FAs, keeping precious draft picks to build with.

- Choosing to finally reunite the minor league camp with the major league in one ST facility.

The Orioles have changed the way they've done business rather significantly over half a season and offseason.

[davearm]

As does:

- Paying draft picks more than slot to sign

- Trading Tejada and Bedard for prospects (and soon Roberts)

- Establishing an academy in the Dominican

- Scouting Asian countries

- Restablishing an "Oriole Way" thoroughout the organization

- Not signing mediocre FAs, keeping precious draft picks to build with.

- Choosing to finally reunite the minor league camp with the major league in one ST facility.

The Orioles have changed the way they've done business rather significantly over half a season and offseason.

I'm talking specifically about the O's interactions with others in the industry.

The Bedard situation was a circus.

The Roberts situation has become a circus.

Those are two very high-profile situations that have created a perception around baseball that things are "business as usual" with the O's FO.

[PoorMike]

The rubber meets the road on this one with draft picks (especially highend ones) and free agents, and on this score, the O's have historically avoided Boras clients like the plague.

The only negotiations the O's had with Patterson and Lopez were in arbitration. Both sides pretty well have their hands tied in that setting, since salary ranges are essentially regulated by the system.

The best counterexample is Matt Wieters, not Patterson and Lopez. As I said, that represents a recent change in course for the O's.

I think Ben McDonald was a Boras guy. Teixiara (we would have drafted him)...Wieters.

I think was signed Lopez out of the Mexican league.

Patterson, Guthrie.....

Arrieta.....

These are just the ones off the top of my head. We haven't signed a big name Boras FA, but to say we've avoided him like the plague is misrepresenting it.

[PoorMike]

I'm talking specifically about the O's interactions with others in the industry.

The Bedard situation was a circus.

The Roberts situation has become a circus.

Those are two very high-profile situations that have created a perception around baseball that things are "business as usual" with the O's FO.

Jim Bowden said his trade for MIllidge took about 6 months from the first discussions with the Mets...but no one else knew about it. The fact that the Bedard thing became a circus is not necessarily on AM.

[blueberryale77]

I'm talking specifically about the O's interactions with others in the industry.

The Bedard situation was a circus.

The Roberts situation has become a circus.

Those are two very high-profile situations that have created a perception around baseball that things are "business as usual" with the O's FO.

Guys, I know Baltimore is in a honeymoon period with MacPhail and O's fans really need something to believe in, but Davearm does have a point. I've certainly heard plenty of comments in New York/New Jersey ridiculing what's going on with Roberts and to a lesser degree what went on with Bedard, particularly the public squabbling about whether or not MacPhail made an effort to re-sign Bedard. There's no doubt MacPhail has done some good things in getting Angelos to put money into the Dominican academy and far east scouting, but that doesn't mean he's perfect. Like it or not, the Orioles front office does have a big, bad reputation to live down and as such MacPhail is in a position where he needs to be very careful not to alienate other teams. Instead, he is being shifty with them. Sometimes you can win the battle but it causes you to lose the war down the road. I think there is very legitimate concern that this could be what is going on here. The return we get for Brian Roberts won't be the end of this situation. We won't know until several years down the road how it affected relationships with other teams and/or free agents.

[davearm]

I think Ben McDonald was a Boras guy. Teixiara (we would have drafted him)...Wieters.

I think was signed Lopez out of the Mexican league.

Patterson, Guthrie.....

Arrieta.....

These are just the ones off the top of my head. We haven't signed a big name Boras FA, but to say we've avoided him like the plague is misrepresenting it.

It's not the point.

The point is that Boras is an example of a guy that some in the industry avoid, because he's difficult and frustrating to deal with, and often a waste of time. Some folks avoid him a little, others a lot, others altogether. Where the O's fall on the spectrum really doesn't matter.

What's being suggested here is that MacPhail and the O's could be on that road, too.

My take is that the O's have already been on that road for some time, and MacPhail is really not doing anything to get them off of it.

[Harry Carry]

Is this a bad way to do business? Waiting this long to pull the trigger, or do you think AM is doing what is right?.

If AM gets the same package thats been talked about for the last month or so no. If he gets a player he is holding for then AM being delibrate you have to say it was succesful.

[Harry Carry]

I just think its bush league and bad business. Its March 20th. Opening Day is just a few days away, and we are still talking offers and scouting. I think the do dillagence(sp) is getting old.

I agree with that statement totally. AM knows the Cubs system. He hired Stocksdale who drafted alot these guys. By now you would have to think they have a idea who they would like. By waiting this long it gave Hendry some other teams interested in his pitching that is available.