Schmuck on point on Fowler

[Number5]

It eliminates th competition for the player. If other teams think a deal is inevitable, or even agreed in principle or some such close understanding, they will not bid or even seek a meeting. The leak from the Orioles is thus easily seen as an advantage to the team and not the player

This is ridiculous. All the agent has to do is open his mouth. No advantage whatsoever to the team.

[El Gordo]

This is ridiculous. All the agent has to do is open his mouth. No advantage whatsoever to the team.

Right, if a team has an interest in a player, they are going to take a report on face value, give up, and not check with the agent to see that it was true?

[weams]

Jim Bowden had a hot take. Except that he was not even aware that Coughlan had been traded to Oakland.

[Stotle]

Right, if a team has an interest in a player, they are going to take a report on face value, give up, and not check with the agent to see that it was true?

It makes another team wonder if it is being negotiated with in good faith if the media is reporting that a deal is already done with someone else. It doesn't completely shut down ongoing talks but it complicates them. Also, yes, if you are looking at available FA remaining then reports that one of them has agreed to a deal does affect a team's interest in reaching out to see if the player is truly available. It also makes the perceived asking price for that player higher because the inquiring team know it has to beat whatever deal is reportedly in place.

[El Gordo]

It makes another team wonder if it is being negotiated with in good faith if the media is reporting that a deal is already done with someone else. It doesn't completely shut down ongoing talks but it complicates them. Also, yes, if you are looking at available FA remaining then reports that one of them has agreed to a deal does affect a team's interest in reaching out to see if the player is truly available. It also makes the perceived asking price for that player higher because the inquiring team know it has to beat whatever deal is reportedly in place.

So how did that ploy work in terms of the O's/Cubs with Fowler? It didn't seem to cause the Cubs any sweat.

[El Gordo]

Because Close was talking to the Cubs and they knew exactly what was going on in his negotiations with the Orioles.

So if Close wasn't talking to the Cubs it would have scared them away? They would have been compromised having to check with Close to see of the deal was true?

[Stotle]

So if Close wasn't talking to the Cubs it would have scared them away? They would have been compromised having to check with Close to see of the deal was true?

Even if it only made them 0.5% less likely to check in, yeah, it matters.

[Stotle]

The joke here is that Close had, most likely, been talking to the Cubs all along and let them know that there was no deal. One possible explanation why he didn't go public with a denial? He would just let the knews break of Fowler signing with the Cubs blindside the Orioles and the media, making both look silly.

BTW, I threw out one of the Angelos boys as the possible leak. Another reason you don't hear a peep coming from the Orioles and why Duquette, possibly, didn't refute the news of the signing.

Maybe including a surprise appearance by Fowler in camp when all of his teammates believed he would be heading to Baltimore...

:scratchchinhmm: :scratchchinhmm: :scratchchinhmm:

[El Gordo]

Even if it only made them 0.5% less likely to check in, yeah, it matters.

It's a stretch I'm not buying it.

[El Gordo]

The joke here is that Close had, most likely, been talking to the Cubs all along and let them know that there was no deal. One possible explanation why he didn't go public with a denial? He would just let the knews break of Fowler signing with the Cubs blindside the Orioles and the media, making both look silly.

BTW, I threw out one of the Angelos boys as the possible leak. Another reason you don't hear a peep coming from the Orioles and why Duquette, possibly, didn't refute the news of the signing.

I think the Angelos boy was the high level O's official who confirmed the agreement to the Sun. The question is who originally leaked it?

[Stotle]

It's a stretch I'm not buying it.

You'd feel differently if you felt like someone was doing anything at all to depress your ability to secure employment. I'm fine with you just saying you don't care, but it's not debatable that players do care about it.

[Stotle]

If the Orioles did leak that a deal was done when the opt out was still a point of contention, I would call that bad faith negotiating. I really hope we aren't doing that sort of thing. And, if it was someone above his head, I agree that it would be an even more reasonable explanation for why DD didn't really address Close's press release and why DD didn't publicly correctly the misperception during those 72 hours.

I admit that with each passing day it seems more likely that someone on the Orioles was playing poor negotiating games.

I still don't understand the Fowler / AJ thing though. I saw what AJ said the day after, but it was pretty clear to a lot of reporters watching him when he said it that he was trying to make the whole thing go away because he saw no point rather than because he actually thought he had jumped the gun. Most of the commentary I've seen has opined that AJ was pissed, but trying to shut the story down (which is smart). Maybe he was pissed because he realized the Orioles had played games, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Either way, this is history now. I would only like to know for sure IF the Orioles were operating in a gray area that I would consider bad faith. I really hope not.

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I'm not looking to slam the Orioles, and I still believe Close is being hyperbolic for effect. Still, it's certainly seeming less and less likely that Close released his statement because he was embarrassed about the job he did or as cover for him and Fowler being underhanded. Agreed; history at this point.

[Number5]

Well, if you believe that Fowler told Jones he was signing with Baltimore and he was on his way, then Jones probably had a right to be pissed for repeating that information and looking a little foolish. However, there is no evidence that Jones felt lied to. In fact, according to Fowler, it was Jones who apologized to him for "jumping the gun". Why would Jones apologize for the jumping the gun if Fowler said he was signing? That would be on Fowler to apologize to Jones. Again, so far, we only have the words of the participants to go one. Fowler and Close have spoken. No on on the Orioles side has contradicted anything that they've said. Jones did not sound pissed at Fowler at all from what I read (his actual words and not some reporter trying to assume he how felt).

"Jumping the gun" is a very different thing than lying. AJ is saying that he "Jumped the gun" by sharing what Fowler told him with the media, thus making it publicly clear after the fact that Fowler told him he was excited about becoming an Oriole. Had he known Fowler might back out, he wouldn't have let the public know what Fowler told him. If Jones had lied about it, his apology would have been for making up a false story, not for jumping the gun. I know it doesn't fit the conspiracy theory that Jones and the Orioles front office hatched a bizarre plan to tell the world that Fowler agreed to a deal when he hadn't, but it is pretty clear that jumping the gun and lying are two entirely different things. Hmm.. hatched a plan, where have we heard that before?

Hey, Fowler can accept any contract offer that he wants. I don't begrudge him choosing Chicago for less money, and his reasons are none of my business. Maybe he just likes Gino's East pizza. Who cares? His apparent misleading of Jones is regrettable, to say the least, and his agent's over-the-top statement seems unprofessional to me, and just plain doesn't seem believable..

[El Gordo]

My take is this: the Cubs offer was reportedly made the same day as the leaked O's Fowler agreement. It was contingent of the Coughlin trade. Close told the O's they had a deal so he could have a fall back deal if the Coughlin trade didn't happen. Who knows who initially leaked it to Olney but an O's official confirmed what he thought to be an agreement. This is why Close is pissed because nothing should have been said until after the physical per the rules. Fowler was waiting to hear about the Cubs deal so he told Jones he was on his way to Sarasota because he very well might have been if things didn't work out.. The Coughlin deal went through so he took the Cubs offer and went to ARZ. Close didn't confirm or deny because the deal was up in the air until the trade happened. Pure speculation but it explains the confusion.

[Stotle]

My take is this: the Cubs offer was reportedly made the same day as the leaked O's Fowler agreement. It was contingent of the Coughlin trade. Close told the O's they had a deal so he could have a fall back deal if the Coughlin trade didn't happen. Who knows who initially leaked it to Olney but an O's official confirmed what he thought to be an agreement. This is why Close is pissed because nothing should have been said until after the physical per the rules. Fowler was waiting to hear about the Cubs deal so he told Jones he was on his way to Sarasota because he very well might have been if things didn't work out.. The Coughlin deal went through so he took the Cubs offer and went to ARZ. Close didn't confirm or deny because the deal was up in the air until the trade happened. Pure speculation but it explains the confusion.

Except why would Close/Fowler perpetrate a lie when they could have just as easily told Baltimore they'd have a decision in the next couple days? Baltimore had no reason to walk away from the table and the talks weren't pressing up against any sort of deadline. The Orioles had already told the media not to expect Fowler or Gallardo until after the rest of the team reported -- that it would likely take into a little bit of ST before things were finalized.