Roch: Matusz Traded (along with draft pick)

[weams]

Sorry, can be hard to tell.

You and I have been discussing the implications of the draft pool for years.

I still think fans are drastically underestimating its importance.

And you and I both agree that it is valuable. I did not want to give up any of our HIGH picks. I did not want Gallardo or Fowler.

[Reboulet'sStache]

They aren't even close to the Phillies. They have essentially no outlays after 2019 besides Davis. Far Cry from the Phillies situation in 2009. The PHillies exacerabted their problem by signing multiple' date=' expensive FA pitchers in the early to mid 30s to long term deals...somehow I don't see the O's getting caught in that trap.[/quote']

That's also because we don't have the "luxury" of getting in that trap. We don't have the payroll of Philly. We can give out one or two Davis type contracts, and the rest of the roster needs to be made up of guys giving us a lot of excess value. We aren't Oakland, but we are a lot closer to Oakland than we are the Phillies in terms of how are roster needs to be constructed. Which means we need to have a steady team of potential high impact players coming up from the minors. And those guys just aren't there, and I'm not sure ever will be there under the current strategy.

[Can_of_corn]

And you and I both agree that it is valuable. I did not want to give up any of our HIGH picks. I did not want Gallardo or Fowler.

And you know I would have been accepting of trading the pick for something that I consider of value.

To me selling the pick to get out of a bad contract you signed isn't something of value, particularly when you still have a number of other questionable signings on the team.

Leaving money in the budget to cover potential acquisitions during the season is a must to me.

If all you have left in the budget when spring training starts is 5M you don't sign Alvarez.

[Crazysilver03]

That's also because we don't have the "luxury" of getting in that trap. We don't have the payroll of Philly. We can give out one or two Davis type contracts' date=' and the rest of the roster needs to be made up of guys giving us a lot of excess value. We aren't Oakland, but we are a lot closer to Oakland than we are the Phillies in terms of how are roster needs to be constructed. Which means we need to have a steady team of potential high impact players coming up from the minors. And those guys just aren't there, and I'm not sure ever will be there under the current strategy.[/quote']

You do know that the O's are spending $40M more than the Phillies this year, right?

[mcgraw238]

The draft is mostly a crap shoot. Sure, that 800K could be used for good or it could be used to draft and sign a Josh Hart, Conner Narron, Michael Olhman, or Cameron Coffey. DD has also brought guys into the system like Chris Lee, David Hale, Ariel Miranda, Joe Gunkel through trades, international signings and DFA claims to add to the depth. The draft is only one way to get players and it's a traditional crap shoot. DD is looking for other ways to offset that risk and has done a great job or bringing in depth guys and guys that will help this organization at some point.

The Gallardo signing was a panic move and that one I didn't agree with. He wasn't a guy you give up the 15th overall pick for. But the 76th pick? I'll trade that to help my ballclub everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Well said Tony. The Gallardo move was much worse than what went down yesterday.

[Can_of_corn]

Well said Tony. The Gallardo move was much worse than what went down yesterday.

I don't think anyone is currently making an argument otherwise.

[Reboulet'sStache]

You do know that the O's are spending $40M more than the Phillies this year, right?

I sure do.

[foxfield]

I've not seen any evidence that he values them at all in his current role.

He probably does assign them some value, but you can't really see that by his actions.

I get your argument and I think your points are pretty valid. However, I think you are off point and skewer your own argument with the above.

Essentially you state twice, that DD places NO value on the picks. Well, no value would be the equivalent of saying pass when the O's name was called with the pick. No?

And, secondly, your point that DD is wrecking the system by losing picks has merit, but your point above skewers this as well. All of the moves yesterday in total, provided 4 minor league players. Isn't that by definition system depth? At the same time, the move saved the Orioles $3 million and some much needed big league roster flexibility.

We might have impacted the system more with the picks lost. We might have impacted the system more with the slots sold. But it is not fair to say that DD continues to throw away picks as if they have zero value.

The Orioles under DD have done two things more than other teams and I think it is a huge part of their success. The Rule 5 picks are obvious and granted we haven't acquired Mike Trout by utilizing this. But other teams are beginning to follow the Orioles down this path. Secondly, DD uses the entire 40 man roster in a way that is bold and has provided many dividends during a stretch that has seen the Orioles become, in spite of countless predictions, one of the most consistent franchises in baseball.

He is not infallible, he should not be sainted. And I appreciate that you believe the picks were lost in vain. I categorically accept that you may be correct. But it would enrich conversation here if you did not cross into the territory of others who state things as fact that are literally pulled out of thin air.

DD places a value on picks that is different from yours. You fear that he will be gone in 2018 and the Orioles system will be left barren when he does. That is completely fair and may or may not be correct. However, the above post, is emotional and does not in any way advance your very solid concerns. Of course, that is only my opinion.

[Can_of_corn]

If you look at my little post you see that I stepped back from the initial claim in the second line.

The first line was for effect.

I'm also pretty sure that you couldn't actually forfeit picks like that.

[foxfield]

Yes that is why I quoted it in full. You stepped back and then repeated the first line.

[Ruzious]

Selling picks is never a good sign, imo. The way you get cheap labor is to use those picks wisely.

[Can_of_corn]

Yes that is why I quoted it in full. You stepped back and then repeated the first line.

I stand by the last line, you can't see it by his actions.

He's traded three comp picks and forfeited 3 draft picks (4 if you count Davis and he also tried to forfeit one for Fowler)

That, to me, shows someone that doesn't place value on them.

As I also said I am pretty sure your established bar of caring "not saying pass at draft time" isn't a permissible action.

[weams]

I'm also pretty sure that you couldn't actually forfeit picks like that.

I'm pretty sure you could. If you just wanted to save the money.

[Ripken]

I don't think anyone is currently making an argument otherwise.

Signing Matusz in the first place was the glaring mistake. Not a disaster like Gallardo, or a failure like Parra, but bad.

Remember all the "we'll have 8 picks in the top 100" stuff? That was fun.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm pretty sure you could. If you just wanted to save the money.

You think the player's union wouldn't have a cow?

I don't think naming a bunch of seniors and giving them 10K would work either.