TT: The Orioles are a mediocre team

[SteveA]

Has he won a trade? I mean, Andrew Miller did give us a legitimate chance to win a World Series so I understand giving up a Eduardo Rodriguez, and Hader gave us Bud Norris who helped us that season as well. But outside of that season, every trade we've lost. Hell, even the Valencia for Lough trade looks terrible. Lough was never a good player for us Valencia sure would look good at 3B right now. All Valencia has done is slash (.286 /332/.473/.805) since we gave him away for Lough.

And the team we traded him too has since given him away, and the next team he went to has since given him away. He could have been had for free by any team in baseball once or twice since we traded him. I don't know if you can count his success this year as a black mark against the deal at this point.

[SteveA]

Has he won a trade? I mean, Andrew Miller did give us a legitimate chance to win a World Series so I understand giving up a Eduardo Rodriguez, and Hader gave us Bud Norris who helped us that season as well. But outside of that season, every trade we've lost. Hell, even the Valencia for Lough trade looks terrible. Lough was never a good player for us Valencia sure would look good at 3B right now. All Valencia has done is slash (.286 /332/.473/.805) since we gave him away for Lough.

I have a pretty good feeling we will come out ahead on the Clevenger/Trumbo deal.

[SteveA]

Well we didn't have Manny for the first two months of 2012

and we didn't have Manny for the first month of 2014, and really he wasn't at full

strength until June

and there was a lot less talent in the AL East

Who is the 2016 Manny that we are going to promote from the minors to impact the

performance of the ML team. The system is bare

The point is that a lot of the same people saying this team can't win this year said the same thing in 2012 and 2014, especially 2012. They wanted to punt in July 2012 and "build for hte future". We didn't punt, we made the playoffs, and somehow not "building for the future" has not prevented us from being the best team in the American League since the start of 2012. I'm sure at some point the lack of building for the future will catch up to us, but it's kind of nice to have 4 straight non losing seasons, a solid start at a 5th, with 2 playoff appearances already.

[SteveA]

KC, Texas.

Texas with the 5.60 bullpen ERA?

[El Gordo]

Wasn't he pretty terrible that year anyway?

You think a 704 OPS and a 96 OPS+ would have saved us?

At least with the sweep the O's had an extra 40 man roster spot.

Last 18 G .230 .351 .508 .860 5 HR and 12 RBI might have helped.

[weams]

Texas with the 5.60 bullpen ERA?

Oh heck. You can always make a bullpen. /Detroit.

[weams]

Last 18 G .230 .351 .508 .860 5 HR and 12 RBI might have helped.

There was no left handed power to face the hard throwing right handed pen. And they had no dominant lefty in the pen.

[Frobby]

You don't get it because you have orange colored glasses on. You are looking at things superficially. Cliches and using historical seasons are nothing more than stories, they mean nothing for this team in this season. The Orioles have played under .500 for the last 43 games of the season. When you are 50 games in, it gives you decent idea of what kind of team you have.

That doesn't mean the team can't improve, and it doesn't mean the Orioles won't play better from this point on, but what it does mean, and it's irrefutable, they have been playing mediocre baseball for the last 86% of this season. I felt they were an 80-84 win team and they are proving me right. I hope they prove me wrong on the positive side.

I don't like the "last 43 games" argument. They've played 50 games and they all count. They've played poorly the last 9 games and so I could argue that they're at a low ebb.

Anyway, I would not be surprised if they fall within your 80-84 win prediction, but I also wouldn't be that surprised if they won 90+. The longer I've been a fan, the less confident I am in anyone's ability to forecast what will happen next to a baseball team. The O's are the type of team where a few subtle things could make a big difference in the W-L one way or the other. So I'll watch and see how things play out.

[Sessh]

... and somehow not "building for the future" has not prevented us from being the best team in the American League since the start of 2012. I'm sure at some point the lack of building for the future will catch up to us, but it's kind of nice to have 4 straight non losing seasons, a solid start at a 5th, with 2 playoff appearances already.

Simply being competitive is enough for you? Being the best regular season team and being 5-7 in the postseason with no World Series appearances? The Royals are better than the Orioles over that span, they've been there

twice and won once. The Orioles finished 81-81 last season and are still surviving on the 7-0 start, but are 21-22 since then though I know plenty of people here only consider that a "few" games or a "slump". The Orioles

have been playing like a .500 team for over a year now, but that's just a slump too I guess.

For me personally, I am not satisfied with just being competitive. I want a World Series team or at least a team that can get to the World Series without being swept effortlessly in the ALCS. It at least seems like many

on these boards are satisfied with just being competitive and getting to the playoffs even if we don't win anything and need a team with a horrible bullpen in the first round to even get to the ALCS. The Orioles are

mediocre and have been for over a year. People are right that there's still plenty of season (four months) left for things to change, but this team is not the 2012 team or the 2014 team and I can only speak for myself

when I say that this is the first year that I have even considered a rebuild. We shall see how the season plays out, but I am not optimistic.

In April, the Orioles beat up on the Twins, the Rays and Boston who all started slow along with most of the AL in general. There was a time that the AL had only five teams above .500 and was looking pretty weak, but

that has changed as well. The Orioles were hot out of the gate at the same time most of the rest of the AL was cold out of the gate. They had the Yankees when they were awful, the Jays when they weren't hitting,

the A's when they weren't playing well and the Tigers when they were playing awful baseball. The Orioles barely won their series in Anaheim with some 9th inning/2 out heroics from Wieters, got swept by the Astros,

played well against Cleveland and are now being dominated by Boston. Now that the AL has stopped underachieving, we will see how the Orioles do through the first half of June.

[El Gordo]

I don't like the "last 43 games" argument. They've played 50 games and they all count. They've played poorly the last 9 games and so I could argue that they're at a low ebb.

Anyway, I would not be surprised if they fall within your 80-84 win prediction, but I also wouldn't be that surprised if they won 90+. The longer I've been a fan, the less confident I am in anyone's ability to forecast what will happen next to a baseball team. The O's are the type of team where a few subtle things could make a big difference in the W-L one way or the other. So I'll watch and see how things play out.

Indeed but for a few poor pitches and a couple of bad luck HR balls we could be two up in this series.

[Rene88]

Wait, what? The MASN telecast called the Orioles a .500 team? That seems out of character for MASN.

Without the win streak.

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[Rene88]

No Manny. No Davis. No Wieters.

Exactly, what could have been...

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[Tx Oriole]

Good assessment as usual. I wish you were wrong but, like your Ravens' analysis, you are pretty much on the money. The big thing that jumps out at me is the OBP. Losing Fowler really hurt and those types of guys just don't grow on trees. We need a couple of those guys desperately to give balance to this one dimensional offense. I think our pitching is adequate but would love to add Teheran despite the high cost or maybe Hill. As I said Monday, I see the Sawx running away with this division but that's no excuse for us to sit on our hands and not try to make upgrades in the area of OBP and pitching and be a factor down the stretch.

You can't blame DD for Fowler.

[weams]

Without the win streak.

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Which one of the two seven game win streaks?

[Morgan423]

You don't get it because you have orange colored glasses on. You are looking at things superficially. Cliches and using historical seasons are nothing more than stories, they mean nothing for this team in this season. The Orioles have played under .500 for the last 43 games of the season. When you are 50 games in, it gives you decent idea of what kind of team you have.

That doesn't mean the team can't improve, and it doesn't mean the Orioles won't play better from this point on, but what it does mean, and it's irrefutable, they have been playing mediocre baseball for the last 86% of this season. I felt they were an 80-84 win team and they are proving me right. I hope they prove me wrong on the positive side.

What... oh wait, I get it.

We're doomed, I can't disagree. May as well go ahead and forfeit the rest of our games in advance. That way our future opponents will just get the wins up front and will be better able to plan out the rest of their seasons.