Duquette Run Is Over

[LookitsPuck]

You still dont know about the cutters at the MLB level. Jake was throwing six different pitches during his MLB starts with the Orioles over the last year he was here. You do know about the time to the plate. You do know that Mark Connor quit because he said all our young guys were prima dona headcases. You know Leo Mazzone said so too.

If you're outlawing them at the minor league level...how the hell are they supposed to get better at the major league level? Also I posted this re: Dylan Bundy a week or so ago:

From back in 2014:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/08/01/orioles-top-prospect-dylan-bundy-re-learns-how-to-pitch-after-tommy-john-surgery/

General Manager Dan Duquette and Director of Pitching Development Rick Peterson removed one of Bundy’s favorite pitches, the cutter, from his repertoire for fear it might decrease the velocity of his fastball later in his career. The Orioles altered his delivery to put less stress on his arm. They put him on a six-day rotation instead of the traditional five, and limited him to 125 innings on the season.

And going way back to 2012:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dan-duquette-doesnt-like-cutters/

“Why don’t you take a look at the chart with the average against cutters in the big leagues, batting average against and then come back and tell me that that’s a great pitch,” Duquette said.

In an interview with Steve Melewski that is destined to provide content for weeks, Dan Duquette outlined the Orioles’ philosophy when it comes to the cut fastball. In essence, the pitch won’t be taught in their minor league organization. “We don’t like it as a pitch,” the Baltimore GM said.

Personally it reads as a monolithic approach that might as well be centered on fairy tales and pixie dust if you're trying to apply it to every pitcher.

And this pretty much sums up my take:

Except that the Orioles have a prospect named Dylan Bundy who throws his fastball in the upper nineties and thrived with a cut fastball as part of his arsenal in high school. The Orioles’ forbidding him from throwing the pitch may be taking this philosophy too far. After all, each pitcher is different, and if Bundy wasn’t having trouble with arm strength and used a fine-looking cutter, telling him to stop using it seems to be folly.

This has always been the problem with this organization. The one size fits all approach. Pitcher differences BE DAMNED.

And I don't care about Mark Connor. One bit. As far as I'm concerned, he's a footnote in a merry go round of failed pitching coaches with the O's. Nothing more.

[weams]

I was (and still am) extremely high on Hader. Same w/ ERod. He was special to me. Yes, he had knee injuries that year. But he was boy pitching against men. We traded him when he was 21 years old. A lefty with mid 90s stuff with a plus changeup that didn't have control issues? These guys don't grow on trees.

I'm still very high on ERod. My only worry is his knee.

I do agree with you. We should have better than Gallardo and Jimenez. No matter what we had to give up to get them.

[Redskins Rick]

I was (and still am) extremely high on Hader. Same w/ ERod. He was special to me. Yes, he had knee injuries that year. But he was boy pitching against men. We traded him when he was 21 years old. A lefty with mid 90s stuff with a plus changeup that didn't have control issues? These guys don't grow on trees.

I'm still very high on ERod. My only worry is his knee.

We can blame Adair for problems with Jake and even Zach Britton. Thankfully, Zach got past that and got himself right, with different pitching coaches..

But, ERod was in danger of staying at AA, and wasn't making any signs of improvement, whose fault is that?

[LookitsPuck]

Everyone knew he had good stuff. Everyone wanted him gone. Nothing in your article states he shouldn't be traded for Scott Feldman. Everyone is right 4 years after a trade.

I'm not so sure how I'm going to say: "Don't trade Arrieta for Scott Feldman" in an article that was written before the Feldman trade. But I digress.

[weams]

I'm not so sure how I'm going to say: "Don't trade Arrieta for Scott Feldman" in an article that was written before the Feldman trade. But I digress.

I think you proved your bonafides.

[atomic]

I hear this excuse every.single.time about these kinds of signings. Maybe, maybe not. But then you don't sign huge risk guys like Gallardo (arm problems/velocity) and Ubaldo (walllllk nation, mechanics) that have draft pick compensation tied to them. Build up your system.

How much better off would this organization be with the 1st rounders from Ubaldo and Gallardo? With Hader? With ERod?

I am really sick of hearing about Hader. The Orioles drafted him in the 19th round under DD. The next year they traded him. 4 years later he is in AA. Are you going to worry about every player the Orioles trade and a couple that succeed and you are never going to let it go. What if the Orioles had traded someone like

Noah Syndergaard? Or Adam Jones and Chris Tillman. Geez give it up.

[LookitsPuck]

We can blame Adair for problems with Jake and even Zach Britton. Thankfully, Zach got past that and got himself right, with different pitching coaches..

But, ERod was in danger of staying at AA, and wasn't making any signs of improvement, whose fault is that?

Wait, you're writing off ERod when he was 21 at AA? After climbing the ladder as follows?

2010: 17 years old, Dominican Summer League

2011: 18 years old, Gulf Coast League then Aberdeen (A-)

2012: 19 years old, Delmarva (A)

2013: 20 years old, Frederick (A+), Bowie (AA) ....at Bowie only threw 60 innings

2014: 21 years old, Bowie (AA) traded to the Red Sox

...why did he completely dominate AA for the Red Sox after leaving the O's? He had knee problems that year. Why are/were writing you writing him off then? It's not like he was stuck in AA forever. The kid moved up the ranks pretty quickly.

[atomic]

I'm not so sure how I'm going to say: "Don't trade Arrieta for Scott Feldman" in an article that was written before the Feldman trade. But I digress.

You could have said it afterwards. When I mean afterwards like the next day not 4 years later. Nothing in that article says much about anything. Other than Arrieta was inconsistent and had good stuff. And did poorly once players got on base. Everyone knew those things. And everyone wanted him gone. I would have driven him to the airport myself.

[LookitsPuck]

I am really sick of hearing about Hader. The Orioles drafted him in the 19th round under DD. The next year they traded him. 4 years later he is in AA. Are you going to worry about every player the Orioles trade and a couple that succeed and you are never going to let it go. What if the Orioles had traded someone like

Noah Syndergaard? Or Adam Jones and Chris Tillman. Geez give it up.

He was 18 years old and putting up insane strikeout rates as a reliever and then was a starter when he was 19 prior to being traded. I'm strictly saying I was high on the kid. And we can't keep trading these guys like candy while throwing away 1st rounders (2), comp picks (3) and signing guys like Gallardo and Ubaldo. It's irresponsible.

[atomic]

Wait, you're writing off ERod when he was 21 at AA? After climbing the ladder as follows?

2010: 17 years old, Dominican Summer League

2011: 18 years old, Gulf Coast League then Aberdeen (A-)

2012: 19 years old, Delmarva (A)

2013: 20 years old, Frederick (A+), Bowie (AA) ....at Bowie only threw 60 innings

2014: 21 years old, Bowie (AA) traded to the Red Sox

...why did he completely dominate AA for the Red Sox after leaving the O's? He had knee problems that year. Why are/were writing you writing him off then? It's not like he was stuck in AA forever. The kid moved up the ranks pretty quickly.

I think at the time of the trade DD thought I have Dylan Bundy, Kevin Gausman, and Hunter Harvey as my young prospects. Erod is a guy a level below these guys and I would rather give him up than the aforementioned guys.

[LookitsPuck]

You could have said it afterwards. When I mean afterwards like the next day not 4 years later. Nothing in that article says much about anything. Other than Arrieta was inconsistent and had good stuff. And did poorly once players got on base. Everyone knew those things. And everyone wanted him gone. I would have driven him to the airport myself.

The point is that I was high on Arrieta. And I think most people disliked the Feldman acquisition. Much like they disliked the Parra acquisition. It's a dangerous road to go down when you're a GM and you make a desperation move and think that it's going to move the needle.

[LookitsPuck]

I think at the time of the trade DD thought I have Dylan Bundy, Kevin Gausman, and Hunter Harvey as my young prospects. Erod is a guy a level below these guys and I would rather give him up than the aforementioned guys.

Bundy had injury issues at the time. As did Harvey. After that it's a cliff with the starting pitching prospects. At the time ERod was rated #3 in the system.

Bundy had Tommy John in 2013. Harvey had an arm injury in July 2014.

[Redskins Rick]

Wait, you're writing off ERod when he was 21 at AA? After climbing the ladder as follows?

2010: 17 years old, Dominican Summer League

2011: 18 years old, Gulf Coast League then Aberdeen (A-)

2012: 19 years old, Delmarva (A)

2013: 20 years old, Frederick (A+), Bowie (AA) ....at Bowie only threw 60 innings

2014: 21 years old, Bowie (AA) traded to the Red Sox

...why did he completely dominate AA for the Red Sox after leaving the O's? He had knee problems that year. Why are/were writing you writing him off then? It's not like he was stuck in AA forever. The kid moved up the ranks pretty quickly.

He did well in Bowie in 2013.

But, in 82 innings in Bowie in 2014, he didn't do as well, he was 3-7 and ERA 4.79 and allowing 9.8 H/9 and 3.2 BB/9., and if you had seen him pitched in Bowie, like I did. You could tell he wasn't the same pitcher, he wasn't dominant or effective. For whatever reason.

[atomic]

I think at some point that is or was what needed to be done. I know its mostly on Angelos, but developing an Ace seems like a long shot with the farm system and the only way to restock it would be to rebuild which I don't see them doing. We aren't going to trade for one so how else are we going to do it? Which is why I fear for another 2 years of .500 baseball before 2018 ends and Manny leaves and we end up like the Phillies used to be but without the 2 world series appearances. Again not my predictions but my fear

People are mad we traded Hader. Trading for a top line starter is going to cost you a lot more than Hader and E-Rod.

[LookitsPuck]

He had a knee injury in April 2014. I wonder if that had some lingering issues. Players say all the time that they're feeling fine (especially in the minors), so take it with a grain of salt.