Accountability

[Frobby]

Jack Zduriencik was the only GM that wanted Cruz for four years. He wasn't overly analytical.

Per fangraphs, Cruz has been worth $63 mm in the last two seasons. He could literally do nothing the next two seasons and the deal would have been a good one. Sometimes you make a bet with bad odds and it pays off anyway.

[Can_of_corn]

Per fangraphs, Cruz has been worth $63 mm in the last two seasons. He could literally do nothing the next two seasons and the deal would have been a good one. Sometimes you make a bet with bad odds and it pays off anyway.

Of course in baseball it is possible to do worse than nothing.

[GoldGlove21]

Apologies in advance if this seems like a rant or a knee jerk reaction.

Will anyone be held accountable for a team constructed in this manner? There is a reason why the Red Sox are surging and the o's are whimpering to the finish line. We have a lineup of one dimensional hitters (homers and k's) and mediocre starting pitching.

I ask as we in Baltimore no longer have a media to hold the front offices feet to the fire on the bad decisions that got to this point. I'm sure no heads will roll as we will likely finish above 500 and seemingly that's all that matters anymore after almost 15 straight losing seasons. But Duquette is a GM who still manages as though it's 1995.

The players cannot be blamed. This lineup has been exactly as it was drawn up and for the most part they have played exceptional.

Maybe it's just the sting of watching a team for 5 months only to collapse in month 6. No fans should have to suffer this way.

You can't keep guys like Davis and Trumbo and preach something other than hitting the ball as hard and as far as possible IMO. I like a lot of our players as people, but I would have traded them away to get younger. I know we talk about windows, but ours will decline year after year as we keep extending our players to huge deals. We will get as expensive as Boston except we will not have the next wave of young guys to supplement the vets.

[turtlebowl]

You can't keep guys like Davis and Trumbo and preach something other than hitting the ball as hard and as far as possible IMO. I like a lot of our players as people, but I would have traded them away to get younger. I know we talk about windows, but ours will decline year after year as we keep extending our players to huge deals. We will get as expensive as Boston except we will not have the next wave of young guys to supplement the vets.

I hated the Davis deal and I really think that is the one that will haunt us in the future. I honestly think the team is better this year with Trumbo and Alverez and take Davis out of the mix. After this year I'd expect that we will lose both of those players and be stuck with Davis in the middle of the lineup for several more seasons. I just think having a middle of the order bat that goes through streaks where he can't make contact kills the team. His stats may look okay in the book at the end of the season but it is so frustrating knowing you just need a ball put in play for something good to happen and he is incapable of doing it.

[Frobby]

I hated the Davis deal and I really think that is the one that will haunt us in the future. I honestly think the team is better this year with Trumbo and Alverez and take Davis out of the mix. After this year I'd expect that we will lose both of those players and be stuck with Davis in the middle of the lineup for several more seasons. I just think having a middle of the order bat that goes through streaks where he can't make contact kills the team. His stats may look okay in the book at the end of the season but it is so frustrating knowing you just need a ball put in play for something good to happen and he is incapable of doing it.

He has had an exceptionally bad year in situations with a runner on 3B and less than 2 out (34% scored), but that really only amounts to 5 fewer runs scored compared to an average player. It's very irritating when it happens, but the importance of it in comparison to other things tends to get overemphasized. Davis has the 2nd best Win Probability Added of the position players on the team, and is second among the position players in WAR. I think the second half of his deal could be a debacle, but to me he's had a decent year despite the low BA and high K's. Fangraphs pegs his value at $22.9 mm so far this year.

[24fps]

I hated the Davis deal and I really think that is the one that will haunt us in the future. I honestly think the team is better this year with Trumbo and Alverez and take Davis out of the mix. After this year I'd expect that we will lose both of those players and be stuck with Davis in the middle of the lineup for several more seasons. I just think having a middle of the order bat that goes through streaks where he can't make contact kills the team. His stats may look okay in the book at the end of the season but it is so frustrating knowing you just need a ball put in play for something good to happen and he is incapable of doing it.

It will be the poster child for self-fulfilling prophesies like "windows of opportunity".

[Babypowder]

He has had an exceptionally bad year in situations with a runner on 3B and less than 2 out (34% scored), but that really only amounts to 5 fewer runs scored compared to an average player. It's very irritating when it happens, but the importance of it in comparison to other things tends to get overemphasized. Davis has the 2nd best Win Probability Added of the position players on the team, and is second among the position players in WAR. I think the second half of his deal could be a debacle, but to me he's had a decent year despite the low BA and high K's. Fangraphs pegs his value at $22.9 mm so far this year.

An ok year, just being worth his salary by the general $/win equation and around a 2 win decline in year 1 of 7 is not likely a good omen.

I'm as concerned about the deal as I was when it was signed. Still think there's a lot of danger ahead.

[turtlebowl]

He has had an exceptionally bad year in situations with a runner on 3B and less than 2 out (34% scored), but that really only amounts to 5 fewer runs scored compared to an average player. It's very irritating when it happens, but the importance of it in comparison to other things tends to get overemphasized. Davis has the 2nd best Win Probability Added of the position players on the team, and is second among the position players in WAR. I think the second half of his deal could be a debacle, but to me he's had a decent year despite the low BA and high K's. Fangraphs pegs his value at $22.9 mm so far this year.

As I said his stats at the end of the year when examined on a piece of paper will look pretty good. I'm speaking as a fan that watches a lot of games. I have no confidence in him when he is at bat when the pressure seems to be mounting on the opposing pitcher. Too many times a potential rally in the middle of the lineup seems to be stymied by a unproductive at bat. I realize that finger could be pointed at a lot of players right now but Joseph may be the only other Oriole I would least like to see at bat right now when it comes to just needing a productive AB. The scary thing is will this year be 1 of his better years of the contract he just signed?

[OsEatAlEast]

As I said his stats at the end of the year when examined on a piece of paper will look pretty good. I'm speaking as a fan that watches a lot of games. I have no confidence in him when he is at bat when the pressure seems to be mounting on the opposing pitcher. Too many times a potential rally in the middle of the lineup seems to be stymied by a unproductive at bat. I realize that finger could be pointed at a lot of players right now but Joseph may be the only other Oriole I would least like to see at bat right now when it comes to just needing a productive AB. The scary thing is will this year be 1 of his better years of the contract he just signed?

Hopefully, since Davis seems to keep himself in better shape than most power hitters. He won't go the route of the Ryan Howard's of the world.

[Babypowder]

Hopefully, since Davis seems to keep himself in better shape than most power hitters. He won't go the route of the Ryan Howard's of the world.

That's the hope, but I haven't seen much evidence that physical condition has much to do with the longevity of baseball skills. There are several TTO style hitters who were in good shape and still aged poorly, and many guys who didn't appear in great shape who aged well.

[atomic]

That's the hope, but I haven't seen much evidence that physical condition has much to do with the longevity of baseball skills. There are several TTO style hitters who were in good shape and still aged poorly, and many guys who didn't appear in great shape who aged well.

Mark McQuire did pretty well through his 36 year old year.

[OsEatAlEast]

That's the hope, but I haven't seen much evidence that physical condition has much to do with the longevity of baseball skills. There are several TTO style hitters who were in good shape and still aged poorly, and many guys who didn't appear in great shape who aged well.

I tend to worry just as much about the pick me up that Davis keeps putting in his cheek. But that has been argued about on this board ad nauseum. I just keep thinking Brett Butler and the like.

[DrungoHazewood]

That's the hope, but I haven't seen much evidence that physical condition has much to do with the longevity of baseball skills. There are several TTO style hitters who were in good shape and still aged poorly, and many guys who didn't appear in great shape who aged well.

I think a diversity of good skills makes a player age better. The more you're painted into a corner, a single niche, the more likely you are to suffer a catastrophic decline. At least that's my pet theory. A good fielding shortstop with a decent bat and speed will likely age better than a slow slugger who plays first and is much better hitter than the shortstop.

Adam Jones could slide to LF/RF and be a reasonably good player for years. Chris Davis could eventually be a nearly full-time DH (or see his defensive performance decline) and would need to OPS .800 or .825 to be a 1-2 win player. That's almost independent of being Mr. Atlas.

[Frobby]

As I said his stats at the end of the year when examined on a piece of paper will look pretty good. I'm speaking as a fan that watches a lot of games. I have no confidence in him when he is at bat when the pressure seems to be mounting on the opposing pitcher. Too many times a potential rally in the middle of the lineup seems to be stymied by a unproductive at bat. I realize that finger could be pointed at a lot of players right now but Joseph may be the only other Oriole I would least like to see at bat right now when it comes to just needing a productive AB. The scary thing is will this year be 1 of his better years of the contract he just signed?

Well, the WPA stat is a pretty good measure of whether the player performed well when it mattered, and it takes into account things like whether a runner got advanced in an at bat. I think he has had a decent season -- obviously, not as good as in 2013 or 2015, but substantially better than 2014. Like you, my big worry about his contract is what happens in the later years of this deal?

[OFFNY]

I think a diversity of good skills makes a player age better. The more you're painted into a corner, a single niche, the more likely you are to suffer a catastrophic decline. At least that's my pet theory. A good fielding shortstop with a decent bat and speed will likely age better than a slow slugger who plays first and is much better hitter than the shortstop.

Adam Jones could slide to LF/RF and be a reasonably good player for years. Chris Davis could eventually be a nearly full-time DH (or see his defensive performance decline) and would need to OPS .800 or .825 to be a 1-2 win player. That's almost independent of being Mr. Atlas.

o

From much of what I have read and heard, a lot of child actors/stars have had that problem ........ producers/directors/writers couldn't get past what they were known for in the star roles which made them famous in the first place, and were subsequently hesitant to think about casting them in different types of roles.