Poll: Fireable Offense?

[Basketeer]

No, it is never a fireable offense.

[oriolediehard]

I voted no. He has been the manager since Davie Johnson.

[MdSooner]

Wow. After reading this thread, I can't believe Bob Irsay wasn't more popular here. So many "Fire Buck" people are in lock step with his management philosophy. They want to give Buck the Howard Schnellenberger treatment.

What exactly is the Howard Schnellenberger treatment?

He was the coach at OU for one year. He showed up for practices and games drunk.

Glenn Mason the coach at KU at the time called OU's president the day after we played KU and informed him that Howard was drunk during the pre game chat

[atomic]

Of course if it was one of those guys managing an important game it would have had to been in June, right before they were eliminated.

Maxilla almost had a winning team but the players started getting busted for steroids and the wheel fell off the cart. I think Mazilli got a bad deal out of being the Os manager. Might be why no one wanted the GM job.

[SteveA]

What exactly is the Howard Schnellenberger treatment?

He was the coach at OU for one year. He showed up for practices and games drunk.

Glenn Mason the coach at KU at the time called OU's president the day after we played KU and informed him that Howard was drunk during the pre game chat

Schnellenberger coached the Baltimore Colts in the early 70s and our drunkeb idiot of an owner Robert Irsay fired him on the sideline during a game because he didn't like a decision Schnellenberger made.

[Tony-OH]

As much of a fan as I am, I can agree here. He has his faults. Besides Maddon tho, who else do you want in besides him? I can't think of anybody.

That was the same argument I heard when I wanted Billick and Gary Williams fired. Harbaugh and Turgeon say hi!

I'm not saying I want Buck fired, I just think there is a conversation that can be had on the pros and cons of keeping a manager that makes the kinds of head scratching moves that he does. this isn't the first time and won't be the last.

Buck is an incredible baseball mind and has done a lot to turn the franchise around, no one can take that away from him, but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself, does sneaking into the playoffs good enough? Let's remember, this is the guy who wanted to ship Kim back to Korea the 3rd week into spring training when he stopped playing him. This is a guy who continues to use Reimold against lefties despite the fact that he didn't hit them all year. This is the guy who ran Schoop out there every day until he was so tired he OPS'd .570 in Sep/Oct. This is a guy who reportedly liked Wright more than Davies. This is a guy who leaves his starters out there more times than not an inning too long. This is a guy who refuses to warm up relievers in "just in case" scenarios and then ends up with bad matchups because his relievers aren't ready.

Buck does a lot of good things of course, and I'm not saying he should be fired, but all things have to come to end and some point and I wouldn't be upset if Buck choose to move up to a front office kind of role.

[brianod]

That was the same argument I heard when I wanted Billick and Gary Williams fire. Harbaugh and Turgeon say hi!

I consistently hammer DD for his bone head decisions and Buck has made some terrible in game decisions lately. But, they have brought us back to relevance in the AL east, which isn't easy with a payroll that ranks behind 4 out of 5 teams. They have both earned the right to stay imo. If DD had 50 million more to spend and Buck had more horses, this wouldn't be an issue. But, we have to deal with the reality of who we are. DD will have to do a better job of building the farm and continue dumpster diving. Buck will have to continue to do an outstanding job of managing people and become more flexible. But, I think we should stick with relevance. Given our payroll and division, what other choice do we have?

[MrOrange82]

In 2012 Jim Johnson had a disastrous July (15 runs, 13 earned, in 10 IP), but Buck stuck with him. After rebounding in August, Johnson started showing additional signs of wear in September (15 baserunners in 13.1 IP). In the ALDS Johnson imploded in game 1 and took the loss. Buck went back to him in game 3, and Johnson blew another save (O's eventually lost in extras).

In 2014 Darren O'Day scuffled through a miserable September (8 runs, 7 earned, in 9 IP). After two consecutive, 9th inning meltdowns by O'Day in the ALCS, the O's found themselves down 2-0 in the series en route to getting swept.

And this year...? Ubaldo as a reliever over Britton, Hunter, Bundy, etc.

Those are just some of the costliest, Orioles examples of Buck's poor, postseason management. Do I have a suggestion for a replacement? No. Am I happy the O's have been competitive under Buck? Obviously. But I don't think he's the guy to guide the Orioles to a WS win.

[tntoriole]

In 2012 Jim Johnson had a disastrous July (15 runs, 13 earned, in 10 IP), but Buck stuck with him. After rebounding in August, Johnson started showing additional signs of wear in September (15 baserunners in 13.1 IP). In the ALDS Johnson imploded in game 1 and took the loss. Buck went back to him in game 3, and Johnson blew another save (O's eventually lost in extras).

In 2014 Darren O'Day scuffled through a miserable September (8 runs, 7 earned, in 9 IP). After two consecutive, 9th inning meltdowns by O'Day in the ALCS, the O's found themselves down 2-0 in the series en route to getting swept.

And this year...? Ubaldo as a reliever over Britton, Hunter, Bundy, etc.

Those are just some of the costliest, Orioles examples of Buck's poor, postseason management. Do I have a suggestion for a replacement? No. Am I happy the O's have been competitive under Buck? Obviously. But I don't think he's the guy to guide the Orioles to a WS win.

This is the problem about the "hire some other guy who gets us over the hump" argument. There is no such guy. Was Joe Altobelli the guy we needed to get those 1982 Os "over the hump" in 1983 rather than that Weaver guy? No. If the team is constructed correctly and performs correctly and has the right amount of unrepeatable luck, then you get a championship.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Frobby]

One decision is never a fireable offense. The conversation can be had though whether Buck can take this team to the next level. Last night's game was Buck's managing in a microcosm. So many right buttons pushed, but then a few head scratches until finally he makes a decision that is indefensible by any sane baseball standard. Buck has done so much for this organization, but at some point you may have to consider future options.

This team doesn't have the talent to get much beyond the level it reached this year. It's not like Buck is skippering the '27 Yankees. If given the talent, I would not have any reservations that Buck could guide his team to championship.

[MrOrange82]

This is the problem about the "hire some other guy who gets us over the hump" argument. There is no such guy. Was Joe Altobelli the guy we needed to get those 1982 Os "over the hump" in 1983 rather than that Weaver guy? No. If the team is constructed correctly and performs correctly and has the right amount of unrepeatable luck, then you get a championship.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Buck's been in baseball for a long time. Failing in the playoffs isn't an Orioles-specific development for him.

[atomic]

This is the problem about the "hire some other guy who gets us over the hump" argument. There is no such guy. Was Joe Altobelli the guy we needed to get those 1982 Os "over the hump" in 1983 rather than that Weaver guy? No. If the team is constructed correctly and performs correctly and has the right amount of unrepeatable luck, then you get a championship.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think Red Sox would destroy us if we met them in playoffs no matter who was the manager. So I don't think it get us over the hump by replacing him but perhaps we make to ALCs.

[MrOrange82]

I think Red Sox would destroy us if we met them in playoffs no matter who was the manager. So I don't think it get us over the hump by replacing him but perhaps we make to ALCs.

That might be true, but I don't want to see this as an argument about team talent. It's not. It's about Buck making bad choices that diminished his team's chances of winning postseason games. Buck didn't lose with his best options on the field (e.g., Britton). He lost with Ubaldo. That's entirely on him, regardless of whether the O's would've been overwhelmed by opposing talent later on.

[ChuckS]

Buck's biggest fault as a manager is that once he establishes a role for a player his hook is not quick enough.

Used to leave Chen in an inning too long countless times. May have cost home field advantage for the Wild Card, when he pushed Miley through the 7th on Saturday. We had JJ Hardy and his sub .300 OBP in the two hole for a full season a couple years ago. There was a nearly finished Vladimir Guerrero spending the whole season as the no. 3 or no. 4 hitter. I really don't like Adam Jones in the leadoff spot even though he hit better there this season than elsewhere in the lineup. But maybe instead of batting him second or third they could have moved him down to fifth or sixth? I'm sure the players appreciate it and that makes him a "players' manager" but it has hurt the team in many instances.

Aside from last night, I'd say that typically his use of the bullpen (once it gets there) is close to masterful.

[El Gordo]

Fire Buck? Replace him with whom? Gardenhire? He's the best available at the moment. These fire Buck threads help me understand why Trump is doing so well.