God NL baseball is awful

[DrungoHazewood]

Only for neanderthal fans whose appreciation of the game is limited to oohing and ahhing over gargantuan home run shots.

Or guys who like the idea of pitching to your 8th place hitter. Nothing's more fun or strategic than killing a rally by intentionally walking a real batter so Jake Peavy can whiff Jeremy Guthrie on three pitched balls.

What I really want to see is a league where the shortstop has to play without a glove. Ineptness in the midst of great skill is funny! And strategic!

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm one of the rare breed of fan who follows an AL team but prefers the NL style.

As a result, I feel very lonely on this board when the topic comes up. I'm like a zebra without stripes.

I wouldn't defend the DH so vehemently if the NL folks didn't think it was blasphemy. If they want to watch pitchers flailing about like little girls, that's their perogative. But when they start calling my league and my team wrong because we'd rather watch nine major league hitters, that's when I get spun up.

[DrungoHazewood]

Before you know it, you'll be done with this NL crap, and you'll be back truly appreciating watching Corey Patterson in the 9 hole, wailing away like some little leaguer.

You know, at Corey Patterson's very worst he's about 250 OPS points better than an average pitcher. When he's really off he's about the same as an average AA hitter. When a pitcher is on he might be able to play right field in the Gulf Coast League.

[66-70-83-??]

I'm one of the rare breed of fan who follows an AL team but prefers the NL style.

As a result, I feel very lonely on this board when the topic comes up. I'm like a zebra without stripes.

I am with you too.

But, I am old enough to remember the pitchers hitting in the AL.

I remember Palmer running the bases with his jacket on in July.

I don't hate the DH. I was excited that the Orioles dealt for Tommy Davis when the DH rule first went into effect.

AL is different style of baseball, not better or worse, just different.

[66-70-83-??]

I wouldn't defend the DH so vehemently if the NL folks didn't think it was blasphemy. If they want to watch pitchers flailing about like little girls, that's their perogative. But when they start calling my league and my team wrong because we'd rather watch nine major league hitters, that's when I get spun up.

Kettle, pot ?

On this board, you have mocked the pitchers hitting more than any NL fan has slammed the DH.

I can appreciate both styles of play. Yes, many pitchers are lame at the plate but it is offset by the stratagies that have to be considered.

I can appreciate both styles of play. MLB can just keep it the way it is.

About the DH-

If one DH is good, then isn't 2 even better, 3 even better still.....and so on.

Why not just bat the best nine hitters regardless of whether or not they can or do play in the field ?

Why not just allow designated fielders too ?

[tennOsfan]

I wouldn't defend the DH so vehemently if the NL folks didn't think it was blasphemy. If they want to watch pitchers flailing about like little girls, that's their perogative. But when they start calling my league and my team wrong because we'd rather watch nine major league hitters, that's when I get spun up.

I know what you mean. I have a friend who is a Braves fan, and he consistently tries to get me into some DH debate, calling AL ball silly. While I prefer the NL rules, it is odd that they so vehemently would prefer seeing a pitcher hit than say, David Ortiz.

[DrungoHazewood]

About the DH-

If one DH is good, then isn't 2 even better, 3 even better still.....and so on.

Why not just bat the best nine hitters regardless of whether or not they can or do play in the field ?

Why not just allow designated fielders too ?

We've gone over this a million times. Pitchers are the only position on the field who hit like your grandma, so they're the only ones who need to be DH'd for. Every single other position has many players who can actually hit major league pitching.

[Mark Carver]

I truly love this AL vs NL, DH argument that pops up here every so often... thanks.

[davearm]

We've gone over this a million times. Pitchers are the only position on the field who hit like your grandma, so they're the only ones who need to be DH'd for. Every single other position has many players who can actually hit major league pitching.

You're being inconsistent and arbitrary in your argument here Jon.

A team consisting of 9 fielders and 9 hitters (an "offense" and a "defense") would produce higher quality hitting, as well as higher quality pitching/defense. And that's clearly what you're interested in.

What the AL is now would be akin to a football league where everybody but the QB plays both ways, but on defense one guy comes in to sub for the QB.

Come to think of it, to make the MLB-to-football analogy complete, not only would you have an offense and a defense, but you'd have designated baserunners to mirror special teams.

The NL has both its feet firmly on one side of the fence here -- every guy plays both ways. Football has both feet firmly on the other side -- no guy plays both ways (although of course a guy could if he was good enough, and occasionally someone does).

The AL is halfway in between, with a foot on each side of the fence. There's no logical justification for applying the specialization rule to pitchers only, but nobody else.

[TGO]

I like both leagues having different rules, personally. I think it's kinda cool. And I think both sides of this argument tend to go way over the top.

[DrungoHazewood]

The AL is halfway in between, with a foot on each side of the fence. There's no logical justification for applying the specialization rule to pitchers only, but nobody else.

Sure there is. The AL has nine guys who are able to hit major league pitching. The NL has eight guys who can hit major league pitching and a 9th that hits like a high schooler.

There's one clearly exceptional case, orders of magnitude different than the rest of the sport. The AL, came up with a rule to deal with that specific situation.

There's nothing inherently logical about any baseball rules. It's a sport that people from 150 years ago invented, and the rules were tweaked to make it an economically viable enterprise. Is it logical that the bases are 90ft apart? Not any moreso than if they were 60 ft or 120 ft. If you want symmetry, and everyone to have a complete skill set, why do you allow substitutions? Why is pinch hitting and pinch running allowed? Why are multiple relievers allowed? Aren't all of those rules bowing to incomplete players' weaknesses by introducing specialization?

[Bosibus]

I'm one of the rare breed of fan who follows an AL team but prefers the NL style.

As a result, I feel very lonely on this board when the topic comes up. I'm like a zebra without stripes.

I am on the same page as you, I am like a cheetah without spots.

[tennOsfan]

You know what I enjoyed the most about the Padre series? The importance of a good bench. Instead of having four or guys on the bench waiting for their turn to start (or pinch run:mad: ), suddenly those guys had important roles, entering the game in the seventh or so.

That adds a lot to the overall strategy of the team:

(1) in making decisions on the team's makeup, a good bench player/utility guy is invaluable in the NL,

(2) sure, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that a pinch hitter can hit better than the pitcher, usually, but an NL manager continually has to pick what longterm sacrifices he'll have to make for the short-term boost of a pinch hitter -- that gives the fans a little more to think about, and talk about, while watching the game.

[davearm]

Sure there is. The AL has nine guys who are able to hit major league pitching. The NL has eight guys who can hit major league pitching and a 9th that hits like a high schooler.

There's one clearly exceptional case, orders of magnitude different than the rest of the sport. The AL, came up with a rule to deal with that specific situation.

There's nothing inherently logical about any baseball rules. It's a sport that people from 150 years ago invented, and the rules were tweaked to make it an economically viable enterprise. Is it logical that the bases are 90ft apart? Not any moreso than if they were 60 ft or 120 ft. If you want symmetry, and everyone to have a complete skill set, why do you allow substitutions? Why is pinch hitting and pinch running allowed? Why are multiple relievers allowed? Aren't all of those rules bowing to incomplete players' weaknesses by introducing specialization?

Your argument falls apart so long as there are great hitters that are forced to play the field even though they're godawful at it (Manny, Adam Dunn types), and great fielders that play even though they're bad hitters (Everett, Mientkiewicz types). By your logic, baseball would be better if the Mannys and the Dunns only hit, and the Everetts and the Mientkiewiczs only played the field.

As soon as you buy into the notion that pitchers shouldn't hit because they're not as good at hitting, you put yourself squarely on a slippery slope that invariably leads to the conclusion that you should have 9 hitters and 9 fielders. Anything short of that is arbitrary: if a little is good (DHing for the pitcher), then a lot is better (DHing for all 9 position players).

And your argument that an arbitrary rule is OK because it's not the only one isn't very compelling.

[rolliefingers]

Your argument falls apart so long as there are great hitters that are forced to play the field even though they're godawful at it (Manny, Adam Dunn types), and great fielders that play even though they're bad hitters (Everett, Mientkiewicz types). By your logic, baseball would be better if the Mannys and the Dunns only hit, and the Everetts and the Mientkiewiczs only played the field.

As soon as you buy into the notion that pitchers shouldn't hit because they're not as good at hitting, you put yourself squarely on a slippery slope that invariably leads to the conclusion that you should have 9 hitters and 9 fielders. Anything short of that is arbitrary: if a little is good (DHing for the pitcher), then a lot is better (DHing for all 9 position players).

And your argument that an arbitrary rule is OK because it's not the only one isn't very compelling.

Like any slippery slope argument, yours is a little extreme in the real world. Pitchers, as a whole, are SO BAD at hitting, compared to each position player, that a rule change made sense. Pitching is also a much more specialized skill than playing any position, so it makes sense that you'd make exceptions for it. (Catcher is probably the next-most specialized defensive position - how else do Bako and Castillo have jobs?) And, of course, there are so many substitutions for pitchers that it makes sense to have a constant hitter.

Tell you what - when someone argues that we need a "designated catcher" rule, I'll join you in saying "enough". Until then, I think the DH makes sense.