Dan Duquette: Orioles Fans Hate Jose Bautista, Prefer "Working Class" Players

[Ohfan67]

DD is not silver tongued. 

[ChinMusic]

2 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

I agree. It's just a bad analogy, even if it has no race-based undertones.

A better analogy would be that Trumbo is boring, while Bautista is demonstrative. Trumbo seems to have no discernible personality either on or off the field, while Bautista is constantly trying to pick fights, show up other teams, etc.

I prefer Trumbo's boringness to Bautista's tiresome antics, and I'm sure the Orioles do, too. So why didn't Duquette just say it that way? Why bring up nonsense about "grit" and "working class"?

Old school baseball guys say dumb, meaningless stuff like this all the time. Such as "I like the way the ball comes out of his hand." I would categorize "grit" and "scrappiness" and other meaningless words and phrases the same way. I don't think you can apply anything truly meaningful to any of it, good or bad.

[PaulFolk]

Just now, ChinMusic said:

Old school baseball guys say dumb, meaningless stuff like this all the time. Such as "I like the way the ball comes out of his hand." I would categorize "grit" and "scrappiness" and other meaningless words and phrases the same way. I don't think you can apply anything truly meaningful to any of it, good or bad.

And in a baseball context, when you hear terms like "grit" and "scrappiness," they're usually applied to David Eckstein-type of players who aren't as physically gifted as other players but are always hustling, getting their uniform dirty, being a pest on the basepaths, etc.

That description doesn't fit Trumbo at all. He's a 6-foot-4 slugger who crushes monster homeruns. He's not some scrappy overachiever who's overcoming physical limitations.

[ChinMusic]

Just now, PaulFolk said:

And in a baseball context, when you hear terms like "grit" and "scrappiness," they're usually applied to David Eckstein-type of players who aren't as physically gifted as other players but are always hustling, getting their uniform dirty, being a pest on the basepaths, etc.

That description doesn't fit Trumbo at all. He's a 6-foot-4 slugger who crushes monster homeruns. He's not some scrappy overachiever who's overcoming physical limitations.

Well DD didn't call Trumbo "scrappy", but I do think your point is valid. It was a dumb comment, that much cannot be debated. I just don't see it having any racial undertones, unlike the Deadspin article and what other posters have implied.

[24fps]

6 minutes ago, ChinMusic said:

Old school baseball guys say dumb, meaningless stuff like this all the time. Such as "I like the way the ball comes out of his hand." I would categorize "grit" and "scrappiness" and other meaningless words and phrases the same way. I don't think you can apply anything truly meaningful to any of it, good or bad.

Be careful.  Real old schools (pre-1957) were segregated.  You might inadvertently be stepping onto thin ice.  Is "thin ice"OK to say in this thread?  Are ice skaters mostly racist?

[jabba72]

This is just embarrassing for Duquette to keep talking about this. Just say he's a poor fielder`, or wants too much money or anything besides "O's fan`s hate him!!, He's not working class!!!"

[ChinMusic]

2 minutes ago, dan-O said:

Exactly! Just an inane comment in so many ways.

Caleb Joseph, who grinded for years to get better in the minors, is a better example. Adam Jones, raised by a single mom, is a better example. Givens, who turned a failed career as a shortstop into playing on the world stage in the WBC as a pitcher, is a better example. 

Again, Trumbo was used as an example because there was a choice between re-signing him versus going for Bautista instead. This has nothing to do with who the most "working class" guy on the O's is. It's about Trumbo versus Bautista. That's it.

The working class comment was really odd, but it has nothing to do with anyone else currently on the Orioles. The Deadspin article and posters here seem to be confused about that.

[Can_of_corn]

I'll take a Rodger Dorn over a working class guy everyday if it means more wins.

[24fps]

1 minute ago, dan-O said:

I basically agree. I'm just using it as an opportunity to shine some light on these dumb terms that people still use. I get where Dan was going with it and how he got there, I really do, with the comparing of FAs. That said, yeah, we hate Bautista, but we absolutely would have embraced him if he was an Oriole and helped us win. To suggest otherwise is idiotic. 

Speak for yourself.

[ChinMusic]

Just now, dan-O said:

I basically agree. I'm just using it as an opportunity to shine some light on these dumb terms that people still use. I get where Dan was going with it and how he got there, I really do, with the comparing of FAs. That said, yeah, we hate Bautista, but we absolutely would have embraced him if he was an Oriole and helped us win. To suggest otherwise is idiotic. 

i'm with you there. Baseball, of all sports, seems to have the most outdated and meaningless phrases to describe skills and players. For example, why are only lefty pitchers considered "crafty"? It's very rare to hear a right-hander called "crafty", that is unless he's a knuckleballer.

I only take issue with the implication that this is a racial thing, which seems silly and unproductive to me. 

[24fps]

1 minute ago, dan-O said:

I hate him as much as the next guy. But that's my point, Dan should not speak for everyone. Certainly if Bautista comes in and helps us win a title, the majority of fans will applaud him. 

He's gone on long enough with this weird narrative that is pretty unfounded, honestly. Get good players, don't worry about what the fans think. I'm happy with Trumbo, but stop pretending you know anything about how Orioles fans feel or what we prefer. 

Worrying about what the fans think is an explicit part of his job description, right up there near the top.

[ArtVanDelay]

5 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Worrying about what the fans think is an explicit part of his job description, right up there near the top.

No way.  His job is to win.  If Bautista helped the O's win a WS, there's no way fans in Baltimore would still dislike him.

A lot of people didn't like Nelson Cruz when we signed him (obviously not to the magnitude of Joey Bats).  Now he's one of the most popular players on the field when Seattle visits.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, dan-O said:

And I'm not saying that Jose would have been a better sign. I actually don't think he would be. He's likely to get injured and miss a bunch of time, and Trumbo is likely to hit 40 bombs again, if we're talking straight up probability here. 

But Dan's mistaken if he thinks he winning fan favor by saying stuff like this. It just comes off as kind of stupid. Wouldn't you rather Dan was confident in his player moves because of scouting or data or literally anything other than "I don't think the city likes him"?

Seven MLB seasons.

One 40 hr season.

Likely.

[weams]

3 hours ago, Phantom said:

Working class has a very specific definition.

[weams]

8 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

 

A lot of people didn't like Nelson Cruz when we signed him (obviously not to the magnitude of Joey Bats).  Now he's one of the most popular players on the field when Seattle visits.

I liked him then and I like him now.  I was sorry that he was a PED user, but I still liked him. And the fans did. And Duquette did. Gave him the second highest offer his free agent season.