Ubaldo Jimenez Today, 2017

[O's are Legends]

15 minutes ago, Norfolk orioles said:

Ubaldo has totally lost the benefit of the doubt.

He is one of the worst pitchers in baseball and has been for some time.

Enough is enough.

It's amazing, but not in a good way. Have been to around 7-8 Ubaldo starts, he has yet to get into the 4th in any of them. I thought today may have been the first, but then there was the grounder that hit the bag, then he left a meatball on a 0-2 pitch with the bases juiced that didn't help.

Someone a few rows in front of me was yelling whenever Ubaldo is scheduled to start, all tickets should be 50% off.

[TheDeau52]

Not to hijack this thread, but do you guys think that Duquette is waiting until Ubaldo and Hardy (not picking up the option) come off the books this off-season to extend Machado? I took a look yesterday, and it seems like a decent chunk of change will be freed up after October (Tillman as well).

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, so apologies if so.

[Nevermore]

I may get bashed for this post.  A couple of years ago,  this subject got so heated that the mods had to lock it down. I was at yesterday's game. Ubaldo had paid for some inner city school children to attend the game. Several Orioles players participate in this program, using their names in banners. Ubaldo's group was designated as "Ubaldo's Warriors." I'm sure that these kids in this program are used to seeing "their" player struggle and not do well. They're just happy to be there, courtesy of "their" player. At any rate, Ubaldo began to struggle after that ball hit 2nd base and bounced out of reach. Shortly after, fans started to boo Ubaldo. What these school children are not very used to is seeing the other fans turn on their player and start vociferously booing him.  I'm not yet used to it either, especially when it's one specific player being picked out for this treatment by his own fans. And this has been going on for 4 years.

As I believe I posted a few years ago, 2014 was the year I returned from my Oriole fan exile.  I attended the division clinching game. Ubaldo was starting after having been banished to the pen.  He struggled for the first 2 innings and the fans were booing him. In my ignorance, I thought that fans would always boo their own players whenever they struggled. Fortunately for the Orioles,  Ubaldo got himself together and pitched well for next 3 innings and the Orioles won and clinched the division. And the fans gave him cheers.

I went to a couple more games and to some playoff games. I  saw other Oriole pitchers perform badly and they were not booed by their own fans. I  was confused. Had Ubaldo truly been that awful as a pitcher?

Fast forward to Wednesday's game. The same pattern has repeated itself through the years. Ubaldo has been up and down as a pitcher. He has never complained about his treatment by the fans nor about his demotions to the pen. Reportedly, he is a favorite of his teammates. Recently, he has given some help to Miguel Castro who might replace him.  But as I found out at Wednesday's game, many fans still hate him. I recently saw Kevin Gausman get knocked out of a game in the 3rd inning. As he walked off the mound, fans grumbled, which is reasonable. But no booing. But as Ubaldo walked off the mound, the booing resounded. I  can understand fan frustration with him not performing up to the standard of a 4 year, $50 million contract . What I have not been able to fathom is the vociference and vehemence of the fans' response. He isn't a serial murderer, he's a pitcher who has been struggling.

I believe that in 2018, Ubaldo will find a different team with some good coaching. And some kinder fans.

[TheDeau52]

42 minutes ago, Nevermore said:

I may get bashed for this post.  A couple of years ago,  this subject got so heated that the mods had to lock it down. I was at yesterday's game. Ubaldo had paid for some inner city school children to attend the game. Several Orioles players participate in this program, using their names in banners. Ubaldo's group was designated as "Ubaldo's Warriors." I'm sure that these kids in this program are used to seeing "their" player struggle and not do well. They're just happy to be there, courtesy of "their" player. At any rate, Ubaldo began to struggle after that ball hit 2nd base and bounced out of reach. Shortly after, fans started to boo Ubaldo. What these school children are not very used to is seeing the other fans turn on their player and start vociferously booing him.  I'm not yet used to it either, especially when it's one specific player being picked out for this treatment by his own fans. And this has been going on for 4 years.

As I believe I posted a few years ago, 2014 was the year I returned from my Oriole fan exile.  I attended the division clinching game. Ubaldo was starting after having been banished to the pen.  He struggled for the first 2 innings and the fans were booing him. In my ignorance, I thought that fans would always boo their own players whenever they struggled. Fortunately for the Orioles,  Ubaldo got himself together and pitched well for next 3 innings and the Orioles won and clinched the division. And the fans gave him cheers.

I went to a couple more games and to some playoff games. I  saw other Oriole pitchers perform badly and they were not booed by their own fans. I  was confused. Had Ubaldo truly been that awful as a pitcher?

Fast forward to Wednesday's game. The same pattern has repeated itself through the years. Ubaldo has been up and down as a pitcher. He has never complained about his treatment by the fans nor about his demotions to the pen. Reportedly, he is a favorite of his teammates. Recently, he has given some help to Miguel Castro who might replace him.  But as I found out at Wednesday's game, many fans still hate him. I recently saw Kevin Gausman get knocked out of a game in the 3rd inning. As he walked off the mound, fans grumbled, which is reasonable. But no booing. But as Ubaldo walked off the mound, the booing resounded. I  can understand fan frustration with him not performing up to the standard of a 4 year, $50 million contract . What I have not been able to fathom is the vociference and vehemence of the fans' response. He isn't a serial murderer, he's a pitcher who has been struggling.

I believe that in 2018, Ubaldo will find a different team with some good coaching. And some kinder fans.

Not going to bash you at all. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I think most fans are just fed up with him at this point. We signed him to be a big-name pitcher and he's been a major liability for the most part. It's been years of this, so I think it's more of patience running thin than nasty fans.

I get that he's a nice guy and does well in the community. But unfortunately, the reality is that the world is a results-driven place. Baseball is no different.

Let me re-frame this discussion:

Imagine you know a guy who gets a huge salary as a high-up in a big company, and his new role is vital to the company's success. He's the nicest guy and volunteers after work, but he's awful at his job and the whole company feels the repercussions of it. Would it be unreasonable/unjust for that guy to be fired? Or that his co-workers might not like him anymore because he's impacting something they care about (their work, which for us, is the time we invest as fans).

You might feel bad for him, which is perfectly fine. But that's just how it goes, and it's not a result of Baltimore having nasty fans, like you say. We have some of the nicer fans out there, both by what I've seen and national reputation (I think).

[Frobby]

I have not noticed Ubaldo getting booed more than other pitchers when they perform poorly, though I do think that in light of his salary and the frequency of his poor starts, it's natural for fans to be exceptionally frustrated with him.   I personally don't believe in booing my own team's players.    

I don't know how Ubaldo's next team's fans will treat him, but he probably won't be coming in with the biggest contract in the history of the team for a pitcher, as he was here.     He's a good guy and I hope he'll be successful, though it will frustrate me greatly if he has more success elsewhere.   

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I have not noticed Ubaldo getting booed more than other pitchers when they perform poorly, though I do think that in light of his salary and the frequency of his poor starts, it's natural for fans to be exceptionally frustrated with him.   I personally don't believe in booing my own team's players.    

I don't know how Ubaldo's next team's fans will treat him, but he probably won't be coming in with the biggest contract in the history of the team for a pitcher, as he was here.     He's a good guy and I hope he'll be successful, though it will frustrate me greatly if he has more success elsewhere.   

My feelings about Baldo are less wanting to boo the guy and more just wanting to get to the end of the contract already. It's disappointing that he's still getting starts when we've basically paid off the Ubaldo loan in full at this point. Ya got as much out of him as you're gonna get, just end it already for crying out loud. He tried hard. 

[Nevermore]

3 hours ago, TheDeau52 said:

Not going to bash you at all. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I think most fans are just fed up with him at this point. We signed him to be a big-name pitcher and he's been a major liability for the most part. It's been years of this, so I think it's more of patience running thin than nasty fans.

I get that he's a nice guy and does well in the community. But unfortunately, the reality is that the world is a results-driven place. Baseball is no different.

Let me re-frame this discussion:

Imagine you know a guy who gets a huge salary as a high-up in a big company, and his new role is vital to the company's success. He's the nicest guy and volunteers after work, but he's awful at his job and the whole company feels the repercussions of it. Would it be unreasonable/unjust for that guy to be fired? Or that his co-workers might not like him anymore because he's impacting something they care about (their work, which for us, is the time we invest as fans).

You might feel bad for him, which is perfectly fine. But that's just how it goes, and it's not a result of Baltimore having nasty fans, like you say. We have some of the nicer fans out there, both by what I've seen and national reputation (I think).

By the way, I'm certainly not blaming all Orioles fans. Just a certain portion. I am strongly opposed too booing our own players . But it's a free country and those who buy tickets are free to boo or not. And actually the people who should be booed are the members of Orioles management who decided on this contract. They were aware of Ubaldo's past record of inconsistancies, and yet they made him the offer. At best, it was a risky move. It's been a few years since he was a "big game" pitcher. I wouldn't have made this move, but I m not the gm.

The Orioles have a problem now with inconsistent starting pitchers including Ubaldo, Tillman (When was his last quality start?), and Gausman. Surprisigly, we're back in the thick of a wildcard race. Ubaldo and Gausman have been good at times, especially Gausman. Tilly has been consistently bad. But the last thing any of them need is for their own fans to boo them even when they falter. We need to get behind ALL our Orioles.

As for bad company workers,  been there, done that before I retired. Sometimes they are doing their best, but it's not good enough I blame the people who put them there.

 

[foxfield]

5 hours ago, Nevermore said:

I may get bashed for this post.  A couple of years ago,  this subject got so heated that the mods had to lock it down. I was at yesterday's game. Ubaldo had paid for some inner city school children to attend the game. Several Orioles players participate in this program, using their names in banners. Ubaldo's group was designated as "Ubaldo's Warriors." I'm sure that these kids in this program are used to seeing "their" player struggle and not do well. They're just happy to be there, courtesy of "their" player. At any rate, Ubaldo began to struggle after that ball hit 2nd base and bounced out of reach. Shortly after, fans started to boo Ubaldo. What these school children are not very used to is seeing the other fans turn on their player and start vociferously booing him.  I'm not yet used to it either, especially when it's one specific player being picked out for this treatment by his own fans. And this has been going on for 4 years.

As I believe I posted a few years ago, 2014 was the year I returned from my Oriole fan exile.  I attended the division clinching game. Ubaldo was starting after having been banished to the pen.  He struggled for the first 2 innings and the fans were booing him. In my ignorance, I thought that fans would always boo their own players whenever they struggled. Fortunately for the Orioles,  Ubaldo got himself together and pitched well for next 3 innings and the Orioles won and clinched the division. And the fans gave him cheers.

I went to a couple more games and to some playoff games. I  saw other Oriole pitchers perform badly and they were not booed by their own fans. I  was confused. Had Ubaldo truly been that awful as a pitcher?

Fast forward to Wednesday's game. The same pattern has repeated itself through the years. Ubaldo has been up and down as a pitcher. He has never complained about his treatment by the fans nor about his demotions to the pen. Reportedly, he is a favorite of his teammates. Recently, he has given some help to Miguel Castro who might replace him.  But as I found out at Wednesday's game, many fans still hate him. I recently saw Kevin Gausman get knocked out of a game in the 3rd inning. As he walked off the mound, fans grumbled, which is reasonable. But no booing. But as Ubaldo walked off the mound, the booing resounded. I  can understand fan frustration with him not performing up to the standard of a 4 year, $50 million contract . What I have not been able to fathom is the vociference and vehemence of the fans' response. He isn't a serial murderer, he's a pitcher who has been struggling.

I believe that in 2018, Ubaldo will find a different team with some good coaching. And some kinder fans.

I am as frustrated as any fan with Ubaldo. But he is an Oriole and I blindly pull for him every time we trot him out there. And just like Charlie Brown with Lucy holding the football, I think, this time he is gonna put it all together.

It's been a bad signing. He has certainly had some good moments. Not 50 million of them. But I have never understood booing your own. It turned my stomach when it happened to Eddie and each time it happens I have a little more respect for Ubaldo.

But it's a business and it's a what have you done for me lately World. These players want to prove their worth. Glenn Davis was at the 25th Anniversary and he is still trying to earn it. 

Thanks for the post. 

[LookitsPuck]

I'm not mad at Ubaldo. I'm mad at management. It is beyond unacceptable that it's September 1st and he's still on the roster. He had a piss poor July. He's had a piss poor August. What is the excuse here? Angelos ate Norris's contract pretty quickly into the season. So why the hell is Duquette holding on to Ubaldo so much?

[TheDeau52]

15 hours ago, Nevermore said:

By the way, I'm certainly not blaming all Orioles fans. Just a certain portion. I am strongly opposed too booing our own players . But it's a free country and those who buy tickets are free to boo or not. And actually the people who should be booed are the members of Orioles management who decided on this contract. They were aware of Ubaldo's past record of inconsistancies, and yet they made him the offer. At best, it was a risky move. It's been a few years since he was a "big game" pitcher. I wouldn't have made this move, but I m not the gm.

The Orioles have a problem now with inconsistent starting pitchers including Ubaldo, Tillman (When was his last quality start?), and Gausman. Surprisigly, we're back in the thick of a wildcard race. Ubaldo and Gausman have been good at times, especially Gausman. Tilly has been consistently bad. But the last thing any of them need is for their own fans to boo them even when they falter. We need to get behind ALL our Orioles.

As for bad company workers,  been there, done that before I retired. Sometimes they are doing their best, but it's not good enough I blame the people who put them there.

 

Very reasonable standpoint. But I disagree to an extent with the bold. By that logic, workers are not responsible for poor performances. Sometimes it's poor management, but you can't always let people off the hook for their performance. I don't know if I sound heartless and I don't mean to btw. I respect effort and I put a lot of stock into that...but then again, I'm not a high-level manager.

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

I'm not mad at Ubaldo. I'm mad at management. It is beyond unacceptable that it's September 1st and he's still on the roster. He had a piss poor July. He's had a piss poor August. What is the excuse here? Angelos ate Norris's contract pretty quickly into the season. So why the hell is Duquette holding on to Ubaldo so much?

There's certainly no need to cut him now.    He's not preventing anyone else from being called up now that rosters have expanded.   Just bench him.   

[LookitsPuck]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

There's certainly no need to cut him now.    He's not preventing anyone else from being called up now that rosters have expanded.   Just bench him.   

Well, there is a reason to cut him. To prevent Buck from using him in extra inning games.

[Three Run Homer]

If a team or a player is underachieving, I'd rather see people showing up and booing than not showing up at all.  At least booing shows that you still care.  

Yes, management deserves more blame for Ubaldo's continued presence in the starting rotation than Ubaldo does.  But there isn't an opportunity during a game to boo Peter Angelos or Dan Duquette or Buck Showalter.  You can only boo the players who are dragging the team down.  

[AZRon]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

There's certainly no need to cut him now.    He's not preventing anyone else from being called up now that rosters have expanded.   Just bench him.   

Ubaldo is taking up a spot on the 40 man roster.  So is Tillman.

Are you saying that we have nobody (not currently on the 40 man) in the minors who may provide a more positive contribution to our September? 

If it were up to me, I would release Ubaldo.  I'd give Tillman 1 more relief opportunity; if he failed, I'd release him.

A couple of runless innings might be the difference in whether or not the O's make the playoffs.

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, AZRon said:

Ubaldo is taking up a spot on the 40 man roster.  So is Tillman.

Are you saying that we have nobody (not currently on the 40 man) in the minors who may provide a more positive contribution to our September? 

If it were up to me, I would release Ubaldo.  I'd give Tillman 1 more relief opportunity; if he failed, I'd release him.

A couple of runless innings might be the difference in whether or not the O's make the playoffs.

Yup, and keeping a player around because he's a nice guy doesn't win ball games.