Rosenthal on Manny at SS

[Beef Supreme]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How is the Orioles offense with Manny at short and someone else at third as opposed to Manny at third and someone else at short?

Unknowable. Especially since the other player is unnamed. But I think your question is whether Machado's offense would suffer by moving to SS. I doubt it, but we can never know for certain either way.

Overall, offensive production should improve with Manny at SS and player-with-a-bat at 3B. Hardy is no longer providing very good offensive production. However, the defense might suffer a little.

Either way, the clock is ticking on Hardy maintaining a starting MLB job at SS. That will have to be addressed in the not-so-distant future regardless of whether Machado gets moved to SS.

[backwardsk]

9 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Machado is more athletic than was Ripken. He makes many plays instinctively. Cal was great at positioning and more cerebral than Manny, who hasn't ever struck me as having a high baseball IQ. Although, I'm sure at the high level which he plays, it isn't necessary.

 

You don't think he showed high baseball IQ against Tampa when he first came into the league? Baserunning lapses aside, what part of his game shows a low baseball IQ.

[wildcard]

28 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

i think this is not the right way to determine where Machado should play. Thirdbasemen will prevent more doubles playing 3B than if they were to move to SS, no matter who the player is. It is the nature of the two positions.

But to play along with your claim: How many singles would Manny prevent at SS vs. 3B? And how many more runs would Machado prevent at SS than at 3B?

Manny will determine where he plays maybe as early as next year.   In Free Agency Manny can tell clubs where he wants to play and they will accommodate him if they want to sign him.  The O's if they want to re-sign him may have to allow him to tell them where he wants to play next year.  Very soon the control over where Manny plays will switch from the club to the player.   That is what Free Agency does.

[Just Regular]

If I'm Manny and thinking about how I want to maximize my legacy, I let SS go.

Here's the mountain to climb:

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=11493,1011586&wg=2

Manny's 80th percentile for the next 15 years is probably enough to unseat Schmidt and establish himself as the greatest 3B of all-time.  I also think his shot at 12000 career PA's is better at 3B - middle infield is just more dangerous.

Also, if he wants to end up with something like Stan Musial and Ted Williams as his peer group, then he should spend his entire career with one team!

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

Unknowable. Especially since the other player is unnamed. But I think your question is whether Machado's offense would suffer by moving to SS. I doubt it, but we can never know for certain either way.

Overall, offensive production should improve with Manny at SS and player-with-a-bat at 3B. Hardy is no longer providing very good offensive production. However, the defense might suffer a little.

Either way, the clock is ticking on Hardy maintaining a starting MLB job at SS. That will have to be addressed in the not-so-distant future regardless of whether Machado gets moved to SS.

Yep, I'm keeping a close eye on Hardy.    He played well last year when he was healthy, and so my best case scenario is a similar year to 2016 with no significant injuries.    Anything less than that and I don't think the O's will or should exercise his option.    

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

Unknowable. Especially since the other player is unnamed. But I think your question is whether Machado's offense would suffer by moving to SS. I doubt it, but we can never know for certain either way.

Overall, offensive production should improve with Manny at SS and player-with-a-bat at 3B. Hardy is no longer providing very good offensive production. However, the defense might suffer a little.

Either way, the clock is ticking on Hardy maintaining a starting MLB job at SS. That will have to be addressed in the not-so-distant future regardless of whether Machado gets moved to SS.

That wasn't what I was going for.

Theoretically it will be easier to get offense from a currently unknown third baseman than a shortstop. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yep, I'm keeping a close eye on Hardy.    He played well last year when he was healthy, and so my best case scenario is a similar year to 2016 with no significant injuries.    Anything less than that and I don't think the O's will or should exercise his option.    

I'm not certain Hardy is still much of an asset on defense even.  Very early I know but he appears to be slowing down in the field.

[Frobby]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not certain Hardy is still much of an asset on defense even.  Very early I know but he appears to be slowing down in the field.

He has looked a little slower to me defensively this year, but 5 games isn't enough for me to form an opinion.   He certainly was still an above average defensive starting shortstop in 2016.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

He has looked a little slower to me defensively this year, but 5 games isn't enough for me to form an opinion.   He certainly was still an above average defensive starting shortstop in 2016.

I agree that it's too early to make judgements.

But I'm not encouraged.

[backwardsk]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not certain Hardy is still much of an asset on defense even.  Very early I know but he appears to be slowing down in the field.

Do you have examples of plays that weren't made in the first five games?  I mostly listen on radio these days.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, backwardsk said:

Do you have examples of plays that weren't made in the first five games?  I mostly listen on radio these days.

No, not on hand.

I am also talking about Spring Training.

It isn't even just a matter of going "Two years ago he would have made that play."  It's the eye test at this point.

And it's five games.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Do you have examples of plays that weren't made in the first five games?  I mostly listen on radio these days.

I don't think there have been any plays that I clearly expected Hardy to make that he didn't.   He just looks a little slower to both sides.   But as I said, too soon to really tell.  

[TouchemAll]

Platinum gloved 3rd baseman... Enough said...

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, backwardsk said:

You don't think he showed high baseball IQ against Tampa when he first came into the league? Baserunning lapses aside, what part of his game shows a low baseball IQ.

That one play makes the case? I was comparing him to Ripken and I believe he relies more on his physical ability. Nothing wrong with that, he's far more physically talented than many players.

[backwardsk]

27 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

That one play makes the case? I was comparing him to Ripken and I believe he relies more on his physical ability. Nothing wrong with that, he's far more physically talented than many players.

Hmm.  "(Manny) hasn't ever struck me as having a high baseball IQ."  That comes across more than just comparing him to Ripken.  Maybe that wasn't your intention, but that's how it comes across.