CTBNL | Orioles self-inflicted weakness deserves to be addressed

[oceanicvoyage]

This whole topic is fascinating. I would love to read the O's internal report that the international signings don't make economic sense. I believe it.  It also interesting how much people complain about this. People forget that sometimes people/organizations choose not to do things for a reason rather than just being lazy. 

Also, the O's probably just don't have the money to get the top end latin guys, so I'll rather take a flyer on a couple of interesting AAAA pitchers with options than a mid-level 16 year old that has hardly ever played against real competition.

If the Orioles are able to continue to win beyond 2018 (especially without Machado), people are going to start to think whatever the O's are up to is working. 

[webbrick2010]

Wow, that guy has some agenda.

I'm more interested in where the O's stack up with other organizations for their total budget, or even the budget/revenue ratio

I'd imagine we spend in the top 25%

The best way to spend that money is debatable.

 

[LookitsPuck]

1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

As I posted on that thread, and commented on the article - 

Among active players…

Jonathan Schoop is the only Oriole that was acquired as an amateur free agent.

Luis Severino and Gary Sanchez are the only Yankees that were acquired as amateur free agents.

Alex Colome is the only Rays player acquired as an amateur free agent.

Xander Bogaerts is the only Red Sox player acquired as an amateur free agent.

The Blue Jays have no players acquired as amateur free agents (although Roberto Osuna was acquired at 16 from the Mexican League).

So the O’s are right on par with the rest of their division.

And spending a lot less money.

 

I'm just glad they are trading the international bonus slots if they aren't going to spend. I hope MLB is able to clean up the buscone system down there. It is terribly exploitative for the players.

I think you're neglecting whom the Red Sox were able to pick up because of their devotion...

[Tryptamine]

By ignoring the July 2nd and Cuban markets you're missing out on a staggering amount of talent. Here's all the players in Baseball America's top 50 the Orioles have missed out on by not being involved in either of those markets.

2)Yoan Moncada(CHW)

5)Gleyber Torres(NYY)

8)Amed Rosario(NYM)

10)Willy Adames(TB)

11)Ozzie Albies(ATL)

13)Victor Robles(WAS)

14)Eloy Jiminez(CHC)

15)Francis Martes(HOU)

18)Rafael Devers(BOS)

20)Vladimir Guerrerro Jr.(TOR)

21)Anderson Espinoza(SD)

24)Manuel Margot(SD)

26)Yadier Alvarez(LAD)

28)Francisco Mejia(CLE)

31)Reynaldo Lopez(CHW)

40)Franklin Barreto(OAK)

41)Jorge Alfaro(PHI)

47)Leody Taveras(TEX)

49)Raimel Tapia(COL)

 

[Enjoy Terror]

3 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

By ignoring the July 2nd and Cuban markets you're missing out on a staggering amount of talent. Here's all the players in Baseball America's top 50 the Orioles have missed out on by not being involved in either of those markets.

It's an opportunity cost. For every dollar spent by Boston on Rusey Castillo, they haven't been able to spend it somewhere else.

[Can_of_corn]

O's have signed at least three Cubans.

[LookitsPuck]

37 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Watch the documentary on Miguel Sano. We were willing to go all out and give him the biggest int'l bonus ever. The shenanigans were just too much and soured PA on the whole process. 

And you have to pay to play. 

The problem is we sign guys like Alvarez (bust), Urrieta (bust), etc.

We "invest" in the Rule V...and pretty much everybody has been busts aside from Flaherty...and he's a utility player.

We sometimes *hit* re: guys like Schoop, but they are few and far between compared to other clubs. 

And just because they don't have those amateur free agents on their club now doesn't mean they haven't traded them for significant talent. Look at the Red Sox.

Yoan Moncada was flipped for Chris Sale.

Anderson Espinoza was flipped for Drew Pomeranz.

They have Xander Bogaerts. 

They also draft and develop well.

They also have Rafael Devers in the minors and others.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Enjoy Terror said:

It's an opportunity cost. For every dollar spent by Boston on Rusey Castillo, they haven't been able to spend it somewhere else.

That might have been true before spending was capped.  Now that it is I don't think those expenditures stop them from making other moves.  Their dilemma is do they spend the max every year or do they go over the cap in one year and suffer the penalties for the next couple.

[Enjoy Terror]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That might have been true before spending was capped.  Now that it is I don't think those expenditures stop them from making other moves.  Their dilemma is do they spend the max every year or do they go over the cap in one year and suffer the penalties for the next couple.

Word, I didn't know they changed the rules. I'm reading about it now.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/new-mlb-international-signing-rules/#w558cSszyIFFq16C.97

[ChuckS]

It doesn't make sense for an organization that is into making so many low cost/low risk moves (see Rule V Picks, constant addition of fringe/4A types) not to invest more internationally where the risk is still low and the reward is much greater.

The premise of the article is correct even if some of the details are slanted. 

[Tryptamine]

Think about it this way. Of that top 50, 19 were acquired via July 2nd period or Cuba. That's 38% of the top 50. Now look at where the Orioles are drafting for the last 5 or 6 years. Usually in the 20+ range. So after you take out 19 players and all those other guys who were gone by the time Baltimore made their first pick and it's no wonder the farm is fairly depleted. Duquette is working with such a small pool of talent to choose from compared to others it's a minor miracle he's managed to bring in some nice nuggets here and there. You simply can't have draft picks 20+ and ignore the international market and expect continued success unless your GM is a draft genius. You're asking way too much from him.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, ChuckS said:

It doesn't make sense for an organization that is so into making so many low cost/low risk moves (see Rule V Picks, constant addition of fringe/4A types) not to invest more internationally where the risk is still low and the reward is much greater.

The premise of the article is correct even some of the details are slanted. 

Lots of us don't think it is the proper strategy but we don't think a racial component exists.

Ownership doesn't want to do it.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Tryptamine said:

Think about it this way. Of that top 50, 19 were acquired via July 2nd period or Cuba. That's 38% of the top 50. Now look at where the Orioles are drafting for the last 5 or 6 years. Usually in the 20+ range. So after you take out 19 players and all those other guys who were gone by the time Baltimore made their first pick and it's no wonder the farm is fairly depleted. Duquette is working with such a small pool of talent to choose from compared to others it's a minor miracle he's managed to bring in some nice nuggets here and there. You simply can't have draft picks 20+ and ignore the international market and expect continued success unless your GM is a draft genius. You're asking way too much from him.

I would say you would need a top notch development team in the minors.

To have any chance of it working.

[ChuckS]

It's arguable that five of our top fifteen prospects right now are international signings (Peralta, Reyes, Wells, Liranzo, Peluffo). Then we got Schoop up here who is our most recently developed everyday player. It seems like the scouts have been successful when they do dabble so it's just that much more perplexing that we aren't investing more resources. 

 

[scOtt]

59 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

It doesn't make sense for an organization that is into making so many low cost/low risk moves (see Rule V Picks, constant addition of fringe/4A types) not to invest more internationally where the risk is still low and the reward is much greater.

The premise of the article is correct even if some of the details are slanted. 

Whether the premise is correct is up for debate. As we do here ALL the time. But he makes it sound like it's the ONLY conclusion. In stone. And something should be done about it!!!!1 :shakesfist: