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When do the O's fish or cut bait with Duquette and Showalter?

Frobby

By Frobby
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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Hardy had the second lowest OBP on the team among regulars.  So that means that six players in any given lineup would have been better suited to bat second.  It would go leadoff hitter, anyone other than Hardy or Schoop, third hitter.

It is not as if Hardy brought speed or even bunting acumen to the table. 

Now obviously lineup construction is a minor issue as is stuff like Buck using hitter/pitcher matchups.  Overall he's very good.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hardy had the second lowest OBP on the team among regulars.  So that means that six players in any given lineup would have been better suited to bat second.  It would go leadoff hitter, anyone other than Hardy or Schoop, third hitter.

It is not as if Hardy brought speed or even bunting acumen to the table. 

Now obviously lineup construction is a minor issue as is stuff like Buck using hitter/pitcher matchups.  Overall he's very good.

And quibbling over it 5 years later is obsessive :deadhorse:

 

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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3 hours ago, Frobby said:

One opinion I hear a lot around here is that Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter don't really care what happens here beyond 2018, because their contracts expire then.    To me, that begs the question, when is it time to fish or cut bait with these two?

With Duquette, my opinion is he should either get a new contract or be replaced at the end of this season.   I don't want a lame duck running my baseball operations based exclusively on short term considerations.    And I'd rather know soon whether he wants to stay -- if we want him to.

I feel a bit differently about Buck.   First, I absolutely want him extended this offseason.    However, if he were to say he planned to retire at the end of his contract, or that he wanted to wait until the end of next year to make up his mind, I'd still want him around for 2018.     I just don't want him to walk into the 2018 season without having had the opportunity to extend.     

It's just up to the owner. What I worry about is the owner picking someone that would be worse than DD. This organization has things backward. The GM should pick his on manager and the manager pick his staff. IMO 

 

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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I truly can't believe what I am reading.  The combination of Dan and Buck have done something that has not been done under Peter Angelos in 23 years.  They have a winning record for 4 out of 5 years and went to the playoff in 3 years.  In fact the only GM/Manager team in O's history to do that is Harry Dalton and Earl Weaver in 1968-71.   I don't think a lot of O's fans appreciate what Dan and Buck have achieved.

I hope that Dan get promoted to President of Baseball Ops and gets the raise he deserves.  It should happen this off season.  Buck should get a good raise as well this off season and extended.  There should be no lame duck status for either of them. John Angelos should be promote of Vice Chairman.

As far as rebuilding.  A team with a 165m payroll does not rebuild.  It reloads.  Too many fans have forgotten how it feels to lose for 14 years.  Personally,  I don't want to go back there.

 

The alea Lane Dulles, VA 20166

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MDtransplant757 Hangout Grand Counsel

MDtransplant757

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1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I truly can't believe what I am reading.  The combination of Dan and Buck have done something that has not been done under Peter Angelos in 23 years.  The have a winning record for 4 out of 5 years and went to the playoff in 3 years.  In fact the only GM/Manager team in O's history to do that is Harry Dalton and Earl Weaver in 1968-71.   I don't think a lot of O's fans appreciate what Dan and Buck have achieved.

I hope that Dan get promoted to President of Baseball Ops and gets the raise he deserves.  It should happen his off season.  Buck should get a good raise as well this off season and extended.  There should be no lame duck status for either of them. John Angelos should be promote of Vice Chairman.

As far as rebuilding.  A team with a 165m payroll does not rebuild.  It reloads.  Too many fans have forgotten how it feels to lose for 14 years.  Personally,  I don't want to go back there.

 

The alea Lane Dulles, VA 20166

Wow. This came straight from my mouth without all the sarcasm/cynasism. Go you

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ORIOLE33 Major Leaguer Rising Star

ORIOLE33

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he's very good if you buy the image or not.

He's tactically sound and his players love to play for him.

 

That's true, but he got LUCKY last year. He was over-managing his ass off in the WS.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I truly can't believe what I am reading.  The combination of Dan and Buck have done something that has not been done under Peter Angelos in 23 years.  They have a winning record for 4 out of 5 years and went to the playoff in 3 years.  In fact the only GM/Manager team in O's history to do that is Harry Dalton and Earl Weaver in 1968-71.   I don't think a lot of O's fans appreciate what Dan and Buck have achieved.

I hope that Dan get promoted to President of Baseball Ops and gets the raise he deserves.  It should happen his off season.  Buck should get a good raise as well this off season and extended.  There should be no lame duck status for either of them. John Angelos should be promote of Vice Chairman.

As far as rebuilding.  A team with a 165m payroll does not rebuild.  It reloads.  Too many fans have forgotten how it feels to lose for 14 years.  Personally,  I don't want to go back there.

 

The alea Lane Dulles, VA 20166

Brace yourself.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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5 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

That's true, but he got LUCKY last year. He was over-managing his ass off in the WS.

The team won the WS. That's all that counts. After 108 years of futility the Cubs won. He must have done something right. 

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backwardsk Hangout Grand Counsel

backwardsk

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41 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I wouldn't mind if we are Houston in 2020. Need to look at the big picture and rebuild smartly. Not let everyone walk out the door after 2018. 

Houston had six straight losing seasons including three 100+ losing seasons before they started winning again.  How do you propose the Orioles go through that cycle in 2.5 years?

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maybenxtyr Hangout Veteran Council

maybenxtyr

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26 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Houston had six straight losing seasons including three 100+ losing seasons before they started winning again.  How do you propose the Orioles go through that cycle in 2.5 years?

Plus, there is no guarantee that system works. How many examples of a torched rebuild failing? Or at best taking a couple of torched to get it right.

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TradeAngelos All-Star

TradeAngelos

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The unabashed love for Buck despite repeated horrendous decisions over and over and over again, vs the hate for Duquette (building very good teams with one arm tied behind his back, while pulling gem after gem off the scrap heap) on this board and the fanbase in general is sickening. 

I can't wait until he is run out of town after what he has done the past 5 years, and we have a completely unqualified owner favorite running the team straight into the ground. Gonna be great around here then, probably will still find a way to make excuses for Buck. 

 

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