Should JJ Hardy get his starting job back once he's healthy?

[foxfield]

6 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

Hardy was 28, but I don't see the parallel. He was already an established, quality defensive SS when he came to the Orioles. No "fixing" was required.

JJ was sent to AAA as late as 2009.  Played a full year here before he rolled off three straight Gold Gloves from 2012-2014.  

Fixing?...no.

Improved?  Absolutely.

I think I see the parallel.  But if you don't...Im ok with that too!

[thezeroes]

15 minutes ago, foxfield said:

JJ was sent to AAA as late as 2009.

Alcides Escobar

[Ruzious]

2 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

And again, Hardy has been slightly below average this year. This isn't even a serious discussion if you're comparing Hardy to beer leaguers, but hey, have at it. 

But you discount Beckham's career numbers at SS as a predictor of future performance? I can tell you from watching him his footwork needs improvement and his hands are "ok". His arm is average , but I'm not impressed with his accuracy. He's serviceable. Maybe Dickerson works with him and he improves, maybe not. I like his energy and his bat-right now. I'll reserve judgement on his defense and as has been noted, he's controllable and not a lot of other options after this year.

 

Where did I say that about Beckham?  All I've been saying about him is that it IS reasonable to consider the options about making him a super utility player if they are able to find a good defensive SS.  

And my comments about Hardy were about his range and throwing.arm.  They're both bad at this stage of his career.  

[Il BuonO]

9 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Where did I say that about Beckham?  All I've been saying about him is that it IS reasonable to consider the options about making him a super utility player if they are able to find a good defensive SS.  

And my comments about Hardy were about his range and throwing.arm.  They're both bad at this stage of his career.  

Eh, you compared both players in your response to Frobby, negatively commenting on Hardy. 

"Don't use Hardy as the standard for defense, because his lack of range AND lack of arm THIS SEASON take away as many outs as Beckham's mistakes.  Playing Hardy isn't going to help on defense."

And neither is playing Beckham based on his track record. But at least you're backing away from the beer league comparison. And I saw no mention of Beckham as a SU.

Should Buck play Hardy in favor of a guy who's tearing it up right now? Probably not, but it doesn't change the fact that Hardy has always been a steady defender. Even this year with all the injuries he's close to average. I'd prefer him in late for defense at the very least.

[Ruzious]

2 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Eh, you compared both players in your response to Frobby, negatively commenting on Hardy. 

"Don't use Hardy as the standard for defense, because his lack of range AND lack of arm THIS SEASON take away as many outs as Beckham's mistakes.  Playing Hardy isn't going to help on defense."

And neither is playing Beckham based on his track record. But at least you're backing away from the beer league comparison. And I saw no mention of Beckham as a SU.

Should Buck play Hardy in favor of a guy who's tearing it up right now? Probably not, but it doesn't change the fact that Hardy has always been a steady defender. Even this year with all the injuries he's close to average. I'd prefer him in late for defense at the very least.

Dude, you continue to jump to conclusions that I didn't imply.  I even made a point of emphasizing I was talking about Hardy - not Beckham.  And again, I said several times - including my last post - that it's legitamate to talk about getting another SS and using Beckham as a super-utility player.  

[Il BuonO]

14 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Where did I say that about Beckham?  All I've been saying about him is that it IS reasonable to consider the options about making him a super utility player if they are able to find a good defensive SS.  

And my comments about Hardy were about his range and throwing.arm.  They're both bad at this stage of his career.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Dude, you continue to jump to conclusions that I didn't imply.  I even made a point of emphasizing I was talking about Hardy - not Beckham.  And again, I said several times - including my last post - that it's legitamate to talk about getting another SS and using Beckham as a super-utility player.  

Duuuude, I've read the entire thread because I did come in later, but please repost the comment about Beckham as a SUP. Is it in another thread? You've mentioned Cozart and repeatedly mention Hardy's lack of range and arm without support. Do you disagree with DRS which shows he's only slightly below the average SS for this year? The range, I agree, but still he's 4.14 RF/9 (only slightly off his last GG season in 2014) If this is just your opinion then there's really nothing more to be said. 

Again, read the entire thread and you're the only poster saying Hardy is either a) not a ML SS, b) no longer has a good arm, or c) comparing him with the guy currently playing SS and then backtracking. But in context of the entire thread you're being disingenuous to say you were only talking about Hardy. Feel free to have the last word.

[Can_of_corn]

16 hours ago, foxfield said:

JJ was sent to AAA as late as 2009.  Played a full year here before he rolled off three straight Gold Gloves from 2012-2014.  

Fixing?...no.

Improved?  Absolutely.

I think I see the parallel.  But if you don't...Im ok with that too!

I thought that was an issue of manipulating his service time?

[Ruzious]

27 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

 

Duuuude, I've read the entire thread because I did come in later, but please repost the comment about Beckham as a SUP. Is it in another thread? You've mentioned Cozart and repeatedly mention Hardy's lack of range and arm without support. Do you disagree with DRS which shows he's only slightly below the average SS for this year? The range, I agree, but still he's 4.14 RF/9 (only slightly off his last GG season in 2014) If this is just your opinion then there's really nothing more to be said. 

Again, read the entire thread and you're the only poster saying Hardy is either a) not a ML SS, b) no longer has a good arm, or c) comparing him with the guy currently playing SS and then backtracking. But in context of the entire thread you're being disingenuous to say you were only talking about Hardy. Feel free to have the last word.

Is this some kind of moronic interrogation?  I've told you my position the last 3 posts.  It is what it is.   What kind of thought process goes through your head to check the other posts here to verify what I said?  What's your purpose in doing that?   And you do understand that there are a lot of other threads about him, right?  I mean... this is truly idiotic on your part.  

  

[foxfield]

44 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I thought that was an issue of manipulating his service time?

Pretty sure Milwaukee had decided to trade him and slid Alcides Escobar over.  Of course he was traded to Minnesota and then to O's.  The move may well have had an impact on his salary, but he made 4.7MM the year he was sent down and 5.1 the year he was with the twins. (Baseball ref)

[Beef Supreme]

On 8/18/2017 at 2:37 PM, Can_of_corn said:

I thought that was an issue of manipulating his service time?

Might have been, But JJ was slashing .229/.300/.367 when he was demoted on August 11

[Beef Supreme]

On 8/18/2017 at 3:27 PM, foxfield said:

Pretty sure Milwaukee had decided to trade him and slid Alcides Escobar over.  Of course he was traded to Minnesota and then to O's.  The move may well have had an impact on his salary, but he made 4.7MM the year he was sent down and 5.1 the year he was with the twins. (Baseball ref)

He was injured a couple times during that down year in Minnesota.

Pretty good trade: 
December 9, 2010: (JJ Hardy) Traded by the Minnesota Twins with Brendan Harris to the Baltimore Orioles for Brett Jacobson (minors) and Jim Hoey.

[foxfield]

I agree. 

[Frobby]

Hardy has been very gracious in taking a back seat to Beckham:   http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/09/hardy-on-his-return-to-the-active-roster.html

[Il BuonO]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hardy has been very gracious in taking a back seat to Beckham:   http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/09/hardy-on-his-return-to-the-active-roster.html

Because he's a class act.

[Frobby]

I'm going to the game on Saturday night, and I must confess, I'd really like to see JJ Hardy start so I can cheer him on one more time.   Tim Beckham's hitting .171/.250/.368 in September, so it's not like he's red hot now.   However, I suspect Buck will play Beckham on Saturday and then play JJ in the home finale.