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What's the most you'd offer any of Hardy, Jimenez, Miley, or Tillman to return?

FanSince88

By FanSince88
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Number5 Hangout Grand Counsel

Number5

Posted
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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you really think it's that simple?

Explain Roberts' stretch in 2012.

Heck Dan had to trade Teagarden because Buck kept playing him.

I think you are stretching your point just a little.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

Posted
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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you really think it's that simple?

Explain Roberts' stretch in 2012.

Heck Dan had to trade Teagarden because Buck kept playing him.

Andino had a .588 OPS  in 2012.   That is why Robert got a shot when he was available.  

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Andino had a .588 OPS  in 2012.   That is why Robert got a shot when he was available.  

Roberts put up a 415 and Buck kept running him out there, in a pennant race, until he was re-injured.

I have never seen a player more obviously not able to play at a ML level than Roberts was over those 17 games.

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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Roberts put up a 415 and Buck kept running him out there, in a pennant race, until he was re-injured.

I have never seen a player more obviously not able to play at a ML level than Roberts was over those 17 games.

I think that was a bit of a different situation. Roberts played in 17 games and couldn't get it going. Really we had no one better and if Roberts returned to form he would have been an improvement. 

The situation with Hardy is where we have someone who is probably a better player. I think Buck will realize that. 

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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53 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

What makes you so sure Hardy would be able to play 2B/3B. He has never played them either in the MiL or the ML. I know Flaherty can and he would cost less than Hardy. Tejada can too and he would cost less than Flash. Hardy makes no sense.

i agree with Frobby;      "Considering the amount of shifting the Orioles do, I think Hardy would have zero difficulty playing 2B -- he's spent plenty of time on that side of the diamond even while playing SS.   I don't think he'd have that hard a time at 3B either"  

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Just now, Lucky_13 said:

I think that was a bit of a different situation. Roberts played in 17 games and couldn't get it going. Really we had no one better and if Roberts returned to form he would have been an improvement. 

The situation with Hardy is where we have someone who is probably a better player. I think Buck will realize that. 

Literally anyone in major league baseball would have been better than Roberts was over that stretch.

If Roberts hasn't been re-injured do you think Buck would have benched him?  After how many more games?  Five, ten, twenty?

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

I think that was a bit of a different situation. Roberts played in 17 games and couldn't get it going. Really we had no one better and if Roberts returned to form he would have been an improvement. 

The situation with Hardy is where we have someone who is probably a better player. I think Buck will realize that. 

Do we have any examples of Buck benching one of "his guys"?  Feel free to include his stints in Texas, AZ and NY.

I'm hopeful that Beckham puts up such a strong case Buck has no choice in the matter.

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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Literally anyone in major league baseball would have been better than Roberts was over that stretch.

If Roberts hasn't been re-injured do you think Buck would have benched him?  After how many more games?  Five, ten, twenty?

I think he would have given him 100 at bats. 

Buck does that a lot with players he wants to succeed. David Lough started alot in the beginning of 2014. Then with roughly 100 at bats, he started to see the bench. Rickard last year was similar. Buck gives guys he likes chances for better or worse. 

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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do we have any examples of Buck benching one of "his guys"?  Feel free to include his stints in Texas, AZ and NY.

I'm hopeful that Beckham puts up such a strong case Buck has no choice in the matter.

I know Buck can be overly loyal. It's one of his flaws as a manager. But has buck ever had a situation like this? Where he has a young player be far better then his veteran guy? 

The difference between Andino and Roberts in 2012 was largely negligible. Another example of would be Jim Johnson but who on that 2013 roster was going to close if not for Johnson? I don't think O'day even in his prime was dominant enough to close. 

I'm not debating whether Buck is too loyal. I'm just saying the situation is different. 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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6 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

I know Buck can be overly loyal. It's one of his flaws as a manager. But has buck ever had a situation like this? Where he has a young player be far better then his veteran guy? 

The difference between Andino and Roberts in 2012 was largely negligible. Another example of would be Jim Johnson but who on that 2013 roster was going to close if not for Johnson? I don't think O'day even in his prime was dominant enough to close. 

I'm not debating whether Buck is too loyal. I'm just saying the situation is different. 

Andino was replacement level (.2rWAR).  Roberts was probably the worst player in the league -1.1 rWAR in 17 games.  That is not a negligible difference.  Fangraphs was much harsher on Andino (-.8) but Roberts was once again rated at -1.1 in 17 games.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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35 minutes ago, wildcard said:

i agree with Frobby;      "Considering the amount of shifting the Orioles do, I think Hardy would have zero difficulty playing 2B -- he's spent plenty of time on that side of the diamond even while playing SS.   I don't think he'd have that hard a time at 3B either"  

I wouldn't be too sure. And I doubt he would cost less than Flash or Tejada.

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