Buck's TTTP Obsession.

[MCO'sFan]

I’ve been around this board for a long time but, rarely post. I enjoy and respect most people’s opinions and insights that have a differing opinion than I do on this subject. But, this thread is amazing to me. I can’t believe that so many would articulate that TTTP doesn’t matter. Perhaps it’s the frustration about our pitching but to say Buck has an obsession about this is over the top. Buck brings this up every now and then and he should. He makes some great points. A “major league pitcher” should be able to control the running game and defend his position. He’s not claiming that it’s more important than commanding your pitches. There is no reason that a pitcher can’t deliver a well-commanded fastball in less than 1.3 seconds. Quite frankly, I am of the opinion that if your delivery out of the stretch is longer then your “mechanics are poor”. I know many people are frustrated but this is not a reason to point to as a factor in how bad our pitching has been. We needed every one of our starters to step up this year to have a chance and the absolute opposite occurred. Most regressed from mediocre to plain ol’ bad. Many of our fringy pitching prospects proved to be just that. This was one of those years that they did whatever it took to lose. If we had a string of good offense then the pitching or defense stunk and when we did pitch okay, our offense went MIA. We just need better pitchers and yes, they need to hold runners, be 1.3 TTTP or less and defend their position adequately.

[Frobby]

For what it's worth, AL pitchers allow a .740 OPS with the bases empty, .766 with runner on.    The Orioles are at .801 with the bases empty, .797 with runners on.    I'd say concentrating on holding runners isn't the problem.   

[Can_of_corn]

No one said it didn't matter. No one.

As for Buck bringing it up now and then, if that is true than explain Brit's tweet about Buck talking about Pudge again. It certainly sounded to me like it is something Buck talks about frequently.

[Ripken]

TTP is about 19th on the list of problems our starters have.

[Otter]

3 hours ago, MCO'sFan said:

I’ve been around this board for a long time but, rarely post. I enjoy and respect most people’s opinions and insights that have a differing opinion than I do on this subject. But, this thread is amazing to me. I can’t believe that so many would articulate that TTTP doesn’t matter. Perhaps it’s the frustration about our pitching but to say Buck has an obsession about this is over the top. Buck brings this up every now and then and he should. He makes some great points. A “major league pitcher” should be able to control the running game and defend his position. He’s not claiming that it’s more important than commanding your pitches. There is no reason that a pitcher can’t deliver a well-commanded fastball in less than 1.3 seconds. Quite frankly, I am of the opinion that if your delivery out of the stretch is longer then your “mechanics are poor”. I know many people are frustrated but this is not a reason to point to as a factor in how bad our pitching has been. We needed every one of our starters to step up this year to have a chance and the absolute opposite occurred. Most regressed from mediocre to plain ol’ bad. Many of our fringy pitching prospects proved to be just that. This was one of those years that they did whatever it took to lose. If we had a string of good offense then the pitching or defense stunk and when we did pitch okay, our offense went MIA. We just need better pitchers and yes, they need to hold runners, be 1.3 TTTP or less and defend their position adequately.

 

No one said TTTP doesn't matter or is unimportant.  Rather, that there are many other things that are more important than TTTP.  Why is Buck so upset about this issue that he publicly calls out several young pitchers and blames them for a loss?  I don't remember him publicly criticizing pitchers for getting bombed, or starting pitchers having 6+ ERAs.  I don't think you can assume all "major league pitchers" should be quick to the plate and still maintain good mechanics and command, and if they can't then they shouldn't be in the majors.  If some pitchers rush their deliveries to improve their TTTP it can lead to negative results: arm dragging, lower arm slot, reduced command, breaking pitches flattening out.  They messed with Arrieta's mechanics and we saw what happened with him.  Palmer has talked about this issue many times on the air, and criticized pitchers focusing too much on a baserunner at the expense of the quality of their pitches to the hitter.  

Once again, no one is saying TTTP or fielding your position are unimportant, or that we shouldn't work with young pitchers to improve these.  But, these issues are much less important than others and the more important issues should not be sacrificed just to improve TTTP.  Maybe Buck should worry more about command, pitch selection, pitch sequence, and actually getting the batter out.  Remember, the baserunner doesn't matter if you get the hitter out.

[baltfan]

1.  A basic assumption in criticizing Buck on TTTP is that if pitchers try to fix it that it will make their performance worse.

2.  There is ZERO evidence that anyone has presented on here that by a pitcher lowering his TTTP he impacts he performs worse.  

   a.  No evidence that it will cause the pitcher to throw fewer strikes.

   b. No evidence that it will cause a pitcher to have lesser stuff.

   c. No evidence that decreasing TTTP decreases performance.

3. TTTP undeniably helps the performance of a pitcher.  

   a. They are less likely to have bases stolen against them.

   b. Base runners are less likely to be able to take an extra base since they have less time to move on the pitch.  

 

 

[MCO'sFan]

26 minutes ago, Otter said:

No one said TTTP doesn't matter or is unimportant.  Rather, that there are many other things that are more important than TTTP.  Why is Buck so upset about this issue that he publicly calls out several young pitchers and blames them for a loss?  I don't remember him publicly criticizing pitchers for getting bombed, or starting pitchers having 6+ ERAs.  I don't think you can assume all "major league pitchers" should be quick to the plate and still maintain good mechanics and command, and if they can't then they shouldn't be in the majors.  If some pitchers rush their deliveries to improve their TTTP it can lead to negative results: arm dragging, lower arm slot, reduced command, breaking pitches flattening out.  They messed with Arrieta's mechanics and we saw what happened with him.  Palmer has talked about this issue many times on the air, and criticized pitchers focusing too much on a baserunner at the expense of the quality of their pitches to the hitter.  

Once again, no one is saying TTTP or fielding your position are unimportant, or that we shouldn't work with young pitchers to improve these.  But, these issues are much less important than others and the more important issues should not be sacrificed just to improve TTTP.  Maybe Buck should worry more about command, pitch selection, pitch sequence, and actually getting the batter out.  Remember, the baserunner doesn't matter if you get the hitter out.

And now we all know why I don't post much here. I was not looking for an argument...just sharing an opinion. While I am not positive that anyone actually typed those words it was certainly the gist of many posts. The rest of your points are opinions to which we are both equally entitled to express.

[thezeroes]

3 hours ago, MCO'sFan said:

And now we all know why I don't post much here. I was not looking for an argument...just sharing an opinion. While I am not positive that anyone actually typed those words it was certainly the gist of many posts. The rest of your points are opinions to which we are both equally entitled to express.

I get used to having parts and partial parts of posts dissected by posters.  Most only read what they want to hear and dismiss the remaining parts of the post.  A few have very little skill at comprehension of the written word especially if more than one sentence.  I am finding it best to simply put out one sentence at a time as the comprehension skills and attention span for most recently is not there for more than that.  Don' let it get you down as some on here simply would argue if it is really dark at night.