Should the Orioles bring back Miguel Gonzalez?

[Beef Supreme]

I know it's semantics, but I can't use the word "excellent" to describe MG, no matter what year we are talking about. And I would bet 90%+ of the people on the hangout would balk at using that word to describe him, too. He may be a better choice than Tillman, but that's because I think Tillman's career may be over.

[CP0861]

1 minute ago, Beef Supreme said:

I know it's semantics, but I can't use the word "excellent" to describe MG, no matter what year we are talking about. And I would bet 90%+ of the people on the hangout would balk at using that word to describe him, too. He may be a better choice than Tillman, but that's because I think Tillman's career may be over.

Then don't.  It's all subjective and a matter of opinion.  I think he has been excellent, at times. 

This has gotten way off the substance in my original post.  It was implied earlier in the thread that he finished 2017 poorly.  In my opinion, he didn't.  The end.

 

 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

I know it's semantics, but I can't use the word "excellent" to describe MG, no matter what year we are talking about. And I would bet 90%+ of the people on the hangout would balk at using that word to describe him, too. He may be a better choice than Tillman, but that's because I think Tillman's career may be over.

Oh, I might describe Gonzalez’s performance from 2012-14 as “excellent.”   He carried a 3.45 ERA for those three seasons, 29th Among the 92 pitchers who threw 400+ innings in that period.    At a minimum I’d call him “very good” during that period.

As to Gonzo now, I think he could be part of the puzzle as a back of the rotation piece.    He can’t be our big pitching acquisition of the winter, but as a complementary piece he could be OK.    I wouldn’t expect him to be any better than he was in 2017, but when you’re replacing guys who had ERA’s in the 6’s and 7’s, that’s still a sizable upgrade.  

[sportsfan8703]

14 hours ago, Frobby said:

Oh, I might describe Gonzalez’s performance from 2012-14 as “excellent.”   He carried a 3.45 ERA for those three seasons, 29th Among the 92 pitchers who threw 400+ innings in that period.    At a minimum I’d call him “very good” during that period.

As to Gonzo now, I think he could be part of the puzzle as a back of the rotation piece.    He can’t be our big pitching acquisition of the winter, but as a complementary piece he could be OK.    I wouldn’t expect him to be any better than he was in 2017, but when you’re replacing guys who had ERA’s in the 6’s and 7’s, that’s still a sizable upgrade.  

Bingo. I think he's a pretty safe play in FA. Plus the guy was huge for us in the playoffs, if we ever get back to those things. 

[foxfield]

I think Miggy would be a terrific add if he were considered the 5th or 6th SP.  If he is the big piece added to the rotation, I think the results will disappoint.  If we add him and two pitchers better...say one more FA (Cobb) and then one more by trading (Sisco +)...I think that could be quite successful.  Wont be easy though.

[Beef Supreme]

Wow! Excellent? Terrific? A safe play in Free Agency? Is that the consensus here? Is there a poll somewhere?

I don't think we should be looking at signing a free agent just to be a "sizable upgrade" over the worst pitcher in baseball at any level last year, Chris Tillman, nor two of the other worst starting pitchers in MLB, Ubaldo and Miley. That justification leads one to eat the moldy cheese because it doesn't make us puke as fast as eating the rotten ground beef.

And where are my FIP-colytes? Or is FIP-lover a better term? There are always multiple people jumping in to quote FIP when discussing any and every pitcher yet I see nary a post in this thread about Gonzalez's (awful) FIPs. His FIPs stunk during that "excellent" 2012-14 stretch in Baltimore and they weren't good this past season either (on a game-by-game basis).

For those who want to bring back MG, my question is: Should the Orioles bring back Brad Bergesen too?

j/k on B.B.

 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

Wow! Excellent? Terrific? A safe play in Free Agency? Is that the consensus here? Is there a poll somewhere?

I don't think we should be looking at signing a free agent just to be a "sizable upgrade" over the worst pitcher in baseball at any level last year, Chris Tillman, nor two of the other worst starting pitchers in MLB, Ubaldo and Miley. That justification leads one to eat the moldy cheese because it doesn't make us puke as fast as eating the rotten ground beef.

And where are my FIP-colytes? Or is FIP-lover a better term? There are always multiple people jumping in to quote FIP when discussing any and every pitcher yet I see nary a post in this thread about Gonzalez's (awful) FIPs. His FIPs stunk during that "excellent" 2012-14 stretch in Baltimore and they weren't good this past season either (on a game-by-game basis).

For those who want to bring back MG, my question is: Should the Orioles bring back Brad Bergesen too?

j/k on B.B.

 

There’s no way Gonzalez’s FIP in 2012-14 is going to convince me that he didn’t pitch extremely well in that period.    I’m sure the O’s excellent defense in that period benefitted Gonzo as well as all of our pitchers, but he also was a very effective pitcher in that period.   

None of that means I expect a mid-3’s ERA from Gonzo now.    But we’re talking about him as our 4th/5th starter, not a top of rotation guy.    

[Beef Supreme]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:20 AM, Frobby said:

There’s no way Gonzalez’s FIP in 2012-14 is going to convince me that he didn’t pitch extremely well in that period.    I’m sure the O’s excellent defense in that period benefitted Gonzo as well as all of our pitchers, but he also was a very effective pitcher in that period.   

None of that means I expect a mid-3’s ERA from Gonzo now.    But we’re talking about him as our 4th/5th starter, not a top of rotation guy.    

How much does that matter? 

1. Bundy       32 starts

[Beef Supreme]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:20 AM, Frobby said:

There’s no way Gonzalez’s FIP in 2012-14 is going to convince me that he didn’t pitch extremely well in that period.    I’m sure the O’s excellent defense in that period benefitted Gonzo as well as all of our pitchers, but he also was a very effective pitcher in that period.   

None of that means I expect a mid-3’s ERA from Gonzo now.    But we’re talking about him as our 4th/5th starter, not a top of rotation guy.    

How much does that matter? If the team is going to commit to signing him, we can expect:

1. Bundy       32 starts
2. Gausman 33 starts
3. FA pitcher 33 starts
4. MGonzalez 32 starts
5. Castro, Ynoa, Verrett, etc. 32 starts

Or maybe we pencil Tillman in the #3 spot. Is that rotation going to help the Orioles improve by 15 games next year? 

[Frobby]

50 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

How much does that matter? If the team is going to commit to signing him, we can expect:

1. Bundy       32 starts
2. Gausman 33 starts
3. FA pitcher 33 starts
4. MGonzalez 32 starts
5. Castro, Ynoa, Verrett, etc. 32 starts

Or maybe we pencil Tillman in the #3 spot. Is that rotation going to help the Orioles improve by 15 games next year? 

I don’t know if that would be enough to get us into the playoffs. It depends in part on who the no. 3 starter is.    It also depends on how every member of that rotation performs.    And, how the other parts of the team perform.     

[eddie83]

I have no issue with Miguel but only as a number 5 type. If they address 3 and 4 I could live with someone like him as a number 5.  

[mdbdotcom]

7 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

How much does that matter? If the team is going to commit to signing him, we can expect:

1. Bundy       32 starts
2. Gausman 33 starts
3. FA pitcher 33 starts
4. MGonzalez 32 starts
5. Castro, Ynoa, Verrett, etc. 32 starts

Or maybe we pencil Tillman in the #3 spot. Is that rotation going to help the Orioles improve by 15 games next year? 

Miguel Gonzalez has never made more than 28 starts in a season, and that was in 2013, when he was 29 years old. That year, he also threw a career high 171.1 innings. Since then, he's had 2 seasons with 26 starts, one season with 23 starts and 2 seasons with 27 starts. He is not one of the pitchers this team needs.