Why you are feeling so down about the Orioles

[eddie83]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Well,  Buck would be fine if the Orioles actually had a normal hierarchy like every other team in baseball.

Buck has his flaws but I think he deserves to stay here. 

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Well,  Buck would be fine if the Orioles actually had a normal hierarchy like every other team in baseball.

True. I have little game day concerns with Buck as a manager. Honestly, I think he's one of the best in game managers. The problem is he was allowed way too much influence over personnel moves and almost every poor personnel decisions on this roster has his finger prints on them.

[Oriol3s]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

If hitting coaches could change players they would make $25M plus a year. 

Yeah, I realize it's not a simple thing to do.  Most MLBers have made it doing it their way for many years.  Tough to change at that point.  If players are who they are, then the team needs to evaluate better to bring in guys who can make adjustments and make contact at least some of the time.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree. I realize that hitters are basically who they are when it comes to plate discipline, but their approaches are often horrible. Mancini is one of the only players willing to go to the opposite field. I honestly can't think of one reason why Coolbaugh still has a job other than he's a Buck guy which means he'll be here as long as Buck is here.

Who do you want him to change?  Davis may be a lost cause. Sisco in a very small sample has skills and as you mentioned Mancini has produced. Rasmus wasn’t healthy. I think Schoop will hit. Jones is Jones. I would be more down on him if the kids came up here and looked overmatched. Schoop blossomed last year.

Hard for me to expect him to change veteran players who have never been the kind of hitters people want them to be.  

[Tony-OH]

Just now, eddie83 said:

Who do you want him to change?  Davis may be a lost cause. Sisco in a very small sample has skills and as you mentioned Mancini has produced. Rasmus wasn’t healthy. I think Schoop will hit. Jones is Jones. I would be more down on him if the kids came up here and looked overmatched. Schoop blossomed last year.

Hard for me to expect him to change veteran players who have never been the kind of hitters people want them to be.  

Too many really poor approaches to at bats. Watch the Red Sox and then watch the Orioles. Tell me the approaches at the plate aren't completely different. Better hitters? Probably, but I see a lot of talent in the Orioles lineup, but I'm not sure there is a team that has more shifts put on them because they are so pull happy.

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Buck fancies himself as a great talent evaluator but that might be his weakest point.

I think he’s pretty good with new talent.    Too attached to guys who performed well for him in their primes.   

[Deadwood Fan]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I would not have Buck back. I give Buck a lot of credit for bringing back some winning, but his fingers are all over this team. This is his team with his guys. 

Duquette is not perfect, but let's face it, when he had overall control of personnel and Buck just managed the Orioles were winning a lot of games. Brady/Buck have their fingers all over this current squad. They are a one dimensional offense that relies on home runs to score, their bullpen doesn't have one shutdown reliever, and they are starting a guy every 5 days who wouldn't be getting guys out in A-ball.

Besides that though, nothing to see here. Everything is hunkie dory.

Tony, there's a saying in sports that a coaching message can get stale if they stay for like 7-8 years, do you think that has happened to Buck? 

[Hallas]

23 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Buck picks his players. Buck said Tillman was better than last year and was part of the reason he was signed to a major league contract and given a spot in the rotation. He keeps pitching Chris Tillman.

He let Cortes make the team, (doesn't have an out pitch) and then put him in impossible situations. Buck has a lot of power on who ends up on his ball club. He helped put this club together including these horrid pitching staffs. He doesn't get a pass.

He asked for Davis to be resigned, appealed to the owner, and got him and now he keeps batting him in the middle of the order. He wanted Trumbo resigned.

How about his hitting and pitching coaches? Same crappy approaches at the plate from most hitters not named Mancini (Machado just has so much talent). Most of the pitchers have lost velocity this year and who is the last pitcher that looks like they have significantly improved?

Buck does a lot of things well. He's a very good in game manager (though his Ubaldo/Britton fiasco is one of the worse managerial moves in Orioles history) and he's class guy. 

Saying that, his fingers are all over the current situation. He doesn't get a pass like he's some 1940s manager who just gets players and has to just use them. He's part, a significant part of some very negative parts of the organization's situation. 

 

 

 

It's funny you say that, because I thought modern managers were more likely to fit this mold, not less.  The Moneyball revolution included GMs picking managers that would go along with the Moneyball way, including trusting in the players pulled out of the scrap heap by their GMs with fancy stats.

Regarding the rest of this post, are you citing inside sources w/r/t Davis and Trumbo?

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Too many really poor approaches to at bats. Watch the Red Sox and then watch the Orioles. Tell me the approaches at the plate aren't completely different. Better hitters? Probably, but I see a lot of talent in the Orioles lineup, but I'm not sure there is a team that has more shifts put on them because they are so pull happy.

 I see power in the Orioles lineup. I also see it has been 14 games.  

The two best oppo hitters on the team are Mancini and Sisco.  

We need a spark on offense. I think Sisco will start playing more. We really need Schoop to get hot.  

Even our lineup would lay off the crap Tillman threw up there tonight. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

22 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Buck fancies himself as a great talent evaluator but that might be his weakest point.

I do not want Buck in the front office next year.  I think if DD was able to operate without Brady and Buck weighing in the Orioles would be a better team today.  

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I do not want Buck in the front office next year.  I think if DD was able to operate without Brady and Buck weighing in the Orioles would be a better team today.  

Well that ship has sailed. 

 

[Tony-OH]

15 minutes ago, Deadwood Fan said:

Tony, there's a saying in sports that a coaching message can get stale if they stay for like 7-8 years, do you think that has happened to Buck? 

I've heard whispers that he may have lost some within the clubhouse. I don't have that verified through multiple sources though so take that with a grain of salt.
 

[Tony-OH]

17 minutes ago, Hallas said:

It's funny you say that, because I thought modern managers were more likely to fit this mold, not less.  The Moneyball revolution included GMs picking managers that would go along with the Moneyball way, including trusting in the players pulled out of the scrap heap by their GMs with fancy stats.

Regarding the rest of this post, are you citing inside sources w/r/t Davis and Trumbo?

I've said this multiple times about Davis. I don't have a direct source on Trumbo, but reading the tea leaves from some of the comments I've heard, Buck was in favor, at the very least, of resigning Trumbo.

[OldNewGuy]

36 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Buck picks his players. Buck said Tillman was better than last year and was part of the reason he was signed to a major league contract and given a spot in the rotation. He keeps pitching Chris Tillman.

He let Cortes make the team, (doesn't have an out pitch) and then put him in impossible situations. Buck has a lot of power on who ends up on his ball club. He helped put this club together including these horrid pitching staffs. He doesn't get a pass.

He asked for Davis to be resigned, appealed to the owner, and got him and now he keeps batting him in the middle of the order. He wanted Trumbo resigned.

How about his hitting and pitching coaches? Same crappy approaches at the plate from most hitters not named Mancini (Machado just has so much talent). Most of the pitchers have lost velocity this year and who is the last pitcher that looks like they have significantly improved?

Buck does a lot of things well. He's a very good in game manager (though his Ubaldo/Britton fiasco is one of the worse managerial moves in Orioles history) and he's class guy. 

Saying that, his fingers are all over the current situation. He doesn't get a pass like he's some 1940s manager who just gets players and has to just use them. He's part, a significant part of some very negative parts of the organization's situation. 

With your insider info, this answers a lot of questions on why Buck has has not been offered an extension. If true, he is gone at the end of this contract. I think he wants to keep on managing. He wants to get that WS Ring to make sure he makes HOF,. It won't be here in the next 3-4 years.

 

 

 

[baltfan]

I think you aren’t giving Buck enough credit.  Pretty clear he favors Sisco over Joseph.  That is a pleasant surprise for someone that favors his guys..  Arouja looks good and isn’t being buried ont the bench. 

He has benched Davis some earl and moved him down in lineup some.  Santander has gotten a shot.  Looks like he is trying different things