Why you are feeling so down about the Orioles

[TouchemAll]

Buck will be telling us their proven MLB players they'll snap out of it LOL when were 20 out in May. The worst thing about tonight loss is the Tigers look like a better team.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

9 minutes ago, pdiddy said:

What's infuriating is that it's not like the approach worked the last couple of years and they are just slumping...it's been a terrible approach that no one seems interested in changing. 

Is anyone sitting in the dugout thinking that it's going to click any day now? It defies any reasonable explanation.

What sucks worst is that the starting pitching has been way better than expected.  They've deserved better results.

When the weather warms up, the Orioles will probably start hitting home runs and we'll hear all is fine.  

[TouchemAll]

Just now, birdwatcher55 said:

We can't beat  the Royals and Rays to save our lives. How bad are the Reds? I'm starting to think we're the second worst team in baseball.

Sadly you may have us ranked to high.

[Norfolk orioles]

Why? Because I own working eyeballs, that's why.

[sportsfan8703]

14 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well the biggest question in all of this is who is the actual bottom line decision maker? Is it Lou Angelos? John Angelos? Still Peter Angelos? Or did Brady endear himself enough to get reigns? There is more intrigued to whats going on right now then an episode of Game of Thrones.

It wasn’t DD. Look at the lack of P depth moves. He acquired 5 decent AAAA options last year for depth. This year we signed M. Kelly(reeks of Logan Ondrusek) and lost Asher on waivers. 

Our SP depth is Wright, Hess, Harvey. 

Our RH relief depth is Yefry, Yacabonis, Harvey, Hess. 

Terrible depth. This was not a DD assembled team. If DD were in control Vielma and Susac would be replaced with depth Pitchers on the 40 man. Instead we’re carrying two projects on the 40 man, plus opened the season with 4 rule 5 guys on the 40 man. 

Thats not how DD has constructed the 40 man over his time here. 

[NashLumber]

Wasting the good pitching. At 9.5 games behind Boston already. That’s a massive early hole. With just 5 wins and 145 more games to go, they would have to play at a .600 winning percentage the rest of the season to get to 92 wins.

 

[Luke-OH]

All I know is punishing employees for seeking better opportunities is a terrible way to run an organization. If you want someone to stay long term, make them want to stay long term.

[tntoriole]

On 4/16/2018 at 9:50 PM, 24fps said:

The fact that Markakis was offered even three years under the circumstances still boggles my mind given PA's history with players having known physical issues.  Perhaps no one who published labled ACDF surgery as career-threating, but people like my wife who have the identical condition down to the same disc and spent a year researching options while consulting several specialists along the way are less cavalier about the risks.  Markakis, Reimold and Peyton Manning have all had success with the surgery and good for them, but anyone who thinks the surgery is routine or risk-free hasn't looked into it.

Cruz's contract covers his age 34-38 years at an AAV of $14 million plus.  If you thought that the history of how players age at the MLB level supported the notion that contract would be successful, then you would have been in a distinct minority four years ago.  Was that your argument then?  Most people who wanted Cruz wanted him for three years at most, ideally 2 years with an option given his age.

FWIW I wasn't advocating that PA fire Duquette, only quickly and conclusively end the story at the outset.  Firing Duquette at the time would have been one way of accomplishing that, but with the potential of causing more problems than it solved IMO.  If it were me, I would have simply told DD that he was expected to honor his contract convention be damned, made a public statement to that effect and said no more about it afterward.  I would have done it within 24 hours of the story breaking and the story would have died from lack of oxygen in a couple of days.  

If we are to believe the speculation about the Orioles corporate culture, then I can't imagine a more toxic environment over the long run.  The day PA formally steps aside should be a public holiday in Baltimore if not in every MLB city.

 

As a physician, I am certainly not cavalier about any surgery.  But I am also knowledgeable about the potential benefits as well.  The fact is that Nick probably played for several years with some degree of discomfort which slowly worsened. By all accounts he had no other evidence of neurologic compromise.  The fact that he was offered 3 years by us and then 4 years by another organization reflects the relative confidence by team physicians in two different organizations and Nick’s surgeon of the likelihood of the positive outcome which indeed occurred...i.e., he has played 4 years reliably after having had the surgery and our right field position has been a complete disaster area ever since which Duquette has done zero to fix.   

I will be happy to go back and pull the multiple bashings I received on this board for not only saying we should sign Cruz AT THE TIME for four years, but predicting that he would exceed the value of the contract he ultimately received.  Sorry, but I got that one correct.  Occasionally, a blind squirrel....lol

I suspect that once it got out then Toronto was likely fueling the story to try to force Angelos hand by making it appear he was being the unreasonable party.  And then Angelos got mad and tried to force a trade he had to know was never happening.  I CAN not only imagine but have worked in more toxic environments ....governmental, not corporate...lol.  I agree that new ownership would be a cause for celebration for Orioles fans. 

 

[big_sparxx]

The plan runs out at the end of the season. Making wholesale changes now doesn't do anything for this season. If we can't fix what's broken, and it show no sign of working... we gotta salvage what we can and move on. That said... it's April. I'm not about to write us off at this point. Can these guys figure it out? Absolutely. Will they? It doesn't make a difference. The outlook for this team next season is probably worse than it is this year.

The problem was building the house on Chris Davis. Every decision in and around that sucks. Somehow we gotta live with that, or cut our losses. 
We've been all in on a pair of twos for 3 years now. We're not bluffing anyone.

[nadecir]

1 hour ago, NashLumber said:

Wasting the good pitching. At 9.5 games behind Boston already. That’s a massive early hole. With just 5 wins and 145 more games to go, they would have to play at a .600 winning percentage the rest of the season to get to 92 wins.

 

So you are saying we still have a chance on April 18th?  Wow, the optimism from opening day has certainly run out quickly.

Fangraphs gives the Orioles a 0.2% chance of making the playoffs.  Baseball Prospectus puts the odds at 0.8% for the Orioles to make the playoffs.  Both peg for the Orioles for a 70-71 win season at this point.

[foxfield]

It is often difficult for me to maintain optimism but I usually find a way to do so.  Going into this year was easier than it should have been really for just one reason.

Last year the rotation was historically bad and it seemed and still seems impossible to approach that level again.  And with that horrible rotation, the Orioles were right in the middle of things until September.

But things seem different, very different.  The team in September seemed to simply run out of gas.  The current team simply looks overmatched.  Its a very small sample and reaching back to get the September results is probably good only to accentuate the point that negative viewers wish to make.

I tend to think that DD has been brilliant here but don't take that to mean infallible.  He has made several mistakes and some of them quite large.  I tend to try...try to see things through the lens of what was possible.  In trades, in FA signings, you need other parties to agree.  When you cannot trade your own players, or sign players that you want because you are forced to sign players you do not want, you have to make chicken salad or chicken $h!t.  That is a fact and I try very hard to keep this in mind in my judgement of DD.

I tend to think that Buck Showalter brought respect back to Baltimore, in the dugout and on the field and I tend to think he has also been brilliant here, but again, don't take that to mean infallible.  Bucks desire to control has always served him and his teams well until...well it doesn't.  We may have reached that point again here, but he got us back where we all wanted to be.  When the Orioles beat Boston and drove a nail though their hearts completing their collapse, I cried.  When Delmon Young doubled and scored Hardy on that beautiful slide, again, I cried.  When the Orioles won the AL East with the best team in the AL...I cried.

Those were all tears of joy, of pent up emotion after years of futility.  Years of stupidity and embarrassment at what was the dismantling of the best franchise in sports.  In hind site, the biggest mistakes of managing success came at the pinnacle when the Orioles failed to keep it going through unforced errors.   DD/Toronto, Buck/Toronto, Chris Davis, Trumbo et al.  

All of that said, I thought this off season provided an opportunity to reset.  To prove that this organization was back.  Going into the off season after fading badly last year, the Orioles entered a period with:  The GM, Manager, Best Pitcher, Best Reliever, Team Leader, Best Player and 3/5 of the rotation either FA or entering the last year of their contracts.  (DD, Buck, Tillman, Zack, AJ, Manny and pitchers that shall not be named).  It was a great time to reevaluate and set a course...

The Orioles could have chosen to rebuild or go all in, they chose to be appear relevant.  The GM, was not fired, or extended.  And to me this is the reason we are where we are now.  Feeling spent, feeling uneasy, feeling cheated, feeling broken.  It could get better or it could get worse, but we are running out the string.  That was not a logical choice and history will show it was not a prudent course.  But not firing the GM last October or extending him shows the organization is unconcerned with where it is, and where it is going.  It chose to lose money to appear that it was functioning and to delay setting a real course.  This will pass, but in time, the naysayers will be proven correct, but for all of the wrong reasons.  The Orioles are not doomed, because DD is an idiot, or because Buck is too loyal, or because Brady has influence.  The Orioles are doomed because they lack accountability.  

So we bash, DD or Buck or Brady.   We curse Chris Davis, or Manny or Ubaldo.  Because it is what fans do.  

I respect that Peter Angelos saved the Orioles for Baltimore.  I do.  And I appreciate the massive dollars he has committed to baseball.  I realize that his purchase of the Orioles prevented an owner who may well have been worse in Jeffrey Loria.  I admire that some of the choices that Peter Angelos makes that create difficulties for the Baltimore Orioles are made out of principle, even if I don't always agree.  I fail to comprehend how that principle, could not drive a desire to succeed by being the best in every other area.  I fail to accept that this franchise has to be dysfunctional to the point of laughter by others.  Attitude reflects leadership.  You doing your job captain?

When Tony begins to hint at problems boiling just below the surface I cringe.  We could not be here without him and I thank him for providing this forum.  I don't agree with him always, and at times I have pushed back privately when I have believed he has been out of line.  But he also has access to things we do not and is in a position to know things we never will.  When he says something is wrong, it is.

The fact is this...with the hiring of AM, Buck and DD...the Orioles had every opportunity to climb out of the darkness and be more than relevant.  They hired knowledgeable baseball people...and began to become a force.  But like the small rays of sunshine that appeared briefly in the movie Perfect Storm.  It appears that we may not be escaping the darkness after all.  That is why I am feeling so down about the Orioles.

 

[NashLumber]

2 minutes ago, nadecir said:

So you are saying we still have a chance on April 18th?  Wow, the optimism from opening day has certainly run out quickly.

Fangraphs gives the Orioles a 0.2% chance of making the playoffs.  Baseball Prospectus puts the odds at 0.8% for the Orioles to make the playoffs.  Both peg for the Orioles for a 70-71 win season at this point.

Looks like Fangraphs have a calculator on their phone like I do.  

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It wasn’t DD. Look at the lack of P depth moves. He acquired 5 decent AAAA options last year for depth. This year we signed M. Kelly(reeks of Logan Ondrusek) and lost Asher on waivers. 

Our SP depth is Wright, Hess, Harvey. 

Our RH relief depth is Yefry, Yacabonis, Harvey, Hess. 

Terrible depth. This was not a DD assembled team. If DD were in control Vielma and Susac would be replaced with depth Pitchers on the 40 man. Instead we’re carrying two projects on the 40 man, plus opened the season with 4 rule 5 guys on the 40 man. 

Thats not how DD has constructed the 40 man over his time here. 

Notice you didn't see DD in my post.

[Deadwood Fan]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Notice you didn't see DD in my post.

Tony, Do you think there is any possibility that DD could be fired during the season now its been reported by Rosenthal that the Angelos son are more involved in the day to day operations? Ken also wrote that Brady may not want the GM job full time, who do you think would be good candidates to fulfill the gm role? 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, foxfield said:

The fact is this...with the hiring of AM, Buck and DD...the Orioles had every opportunity to climb out of the darkness and be more than relevant.  They hired knowledgeable baseball people...and began to become a force.  But like the small rays of sunshine that appeared briefly in the movie Perfect Storm.  It appears that we may not be escaping the darkness after all.  That is why I am feeling so down about the Orioles.

 

Think about this, the Orioles hired DD in November 2011. In 2012, the team made the playoffs for the first time since 1997. In 2014, the Orioles won the American League East with 96 wins and made it to the American League Championship Series. By most accounts, Duquette had the authority to compose his roster from 2012-2014.

Then the Toronto thing happened during the 2014-15 season and Brady and Buck rushed to fill the influence vacuum. DD was  basically left to being an assistant GM who does the Rule 5 stuff, signs minor league free agents and make minor deals, but no longer held influence over player signings/re-signings or final roster construction.

The Orioles resign Chris Davis, Darren O'day, Mark Trumbo and Chris Tillman since (Buck guys). 

Under Dan Duquette constructed teams from 2012-2014:
274-212 (.564), one wild card (won), one AL East Championship, One ALCS appearance

Buck/Brady Constructed teams from 2015-2018
250-253 (.497), one 2nd wild card (loss)