Frank Robinson has passed

[SteveA]

19 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

 MVP of both leagues

Rookie of the year

14x All-Stars

HOF

Oriole HOF / Indians HOF / Reds HOF

World Series MVP

Triple Crown Winner

How is he underrated?

 

When talking about that era of hitters, I think a lot of people will talk about Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, and then stop.

Or they will add Clemente and Musial, and then stop.

Frank deserves to be above that line, not below it.   But I think in the consciousness of national baseball fans, he is one notch down and he should NOT be.  When he retired he was 4th in home runs behind only Aaron, Ruth, and Mays.

[Redskins Rick]

19 minutes ago, SteveA said:

When talking about that era of hitters, I think a lot of people will talk about Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, and then stop.

Or they will add Clemente and Musial, and then stop.

Frank deserves to be above that line, not below it.   But I think in the consciousness of national baseball fans, he is one notch down and he should NOT be.  When he retired he was 4th in home runs behind only Aaron, Ruth, and Mays.

I see your point.

[TouchemAll]

RIP Mr Robinson...

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, SteveA said:

When talking about that era of hitters, I think a lot of people will talk about Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, and then stop.

Or they will add Clemente and Musial, and then stop.

Frank deserves to be above that line, not below it.   But I think in the consciousness of national baseball fans, he is one notch down and he should NOT be.  When he retired he was 4th in home runs behind only Aaron, Ruth, and Mays.

Frank above Stan the Man, solely as a player?   That might be a reach.  But yeah, I’d put him above Clemente, though not by too much.   

Thing is, Frank has countless plus factors in addition to his gaudy stats.   

[SteveA]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Frank above Stan the Man, solely as a player?   That might be a reach.  But yeah, I’d put him above Clemente, though not by too much.   

Thing is, Frank has countless plus factors in addition to his gaudy stats.   

I didn't mean to say he necessarily should be above Musial or Clemente.

I just meant that when talking about the great players of that era, those other 5 guys names will come up way more than Frank's.   I think it should be a 6 man club but outside of Baltimore I think it's a 5 man club.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

When talking about that era of hitters, I think a lot of people will talk about Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, and then stop.

Or they will add Clemente and Musial, and then stop.

Frank deserves to be above that line, not below it.   But I think in the consciousness of national baseball fans, he is one notch down and he should NOT be.  When he retired he was 4th in home runs behind only Aaron, Ruth, and Mays.

He didn't wind up with 3,000 hits, 600 homers.  Falls just short on both counting numbers.  I think that plays a part.

[TonySoprano]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

He didn't wind up with 3,000 hits, 600 homers.  Falls just short on both counting numbers.  I think that plays a part.

57 hits from 3,000.  If he wanted to be selfish, he could've gotten those numbers as player-manager with Cleveland.  600 HRs?  As was pointed out, he was 4th all-time when he retired and the "counting number" was 500 not 600.  
 

Mickey Mantle gets a lot more love than Frank and he had 2,415 hits and 536 HRs.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, TonySoprano said:

57 hits from 3,000.  If he wanted to be selfish, he could've gotten those numbers as player-manager with Cleveland.  600 HRs?  As was pointed out, he was 4th all-time when he retired and the "counting number" was 500 not 600.

I know, but I'm not talking about when he retired.  I'm talking about how he was viewed (or not viewed) up until yesterday.  The debate is that he was underrated, I agree.  He is not mentioned in the Mays, Mantle, Aaron crowd and he should be.  

[Palmoripken]

Frank might be a little underrated because he doesn’t have that moment. Mays has The Catch. Mantle played for so many WS winners. And Hank of course broke Babe’s record. If I’d compare Frank to anyone, I’d say he’s Stan Musial while the other three are more like Williams and DiMaggio. A consistently solid professional who if you know baseball know he was an all time great but the casual sports fan overlooks. 

[ORIOLE33]

2 hours ago, SteveA said:

When talking about that era of hitters, I think a lot of people will talk about Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, and then stop.

Or they will add Clemente and Musial, and then stop.

Frank deserves to be above that line, not below it.   But I think in the consciousness of national baseball fans, he is one notch down and he should NOT be.  When he retired he was 4th in home runs behind only Aaron, Ruth, and Mays.

That’s exactly what I was talking about.

[weams]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Frank above Stan the Man, solely as a player?   That might be a reach.  But yeah, I’d put him above Clemente, though not by too much.   

Thing is, Frank has countless plus factors in addition to his gaudy stats.   

Definitely better than Clemente. Oh yes. 

[Going Underground]

15 minutes ago, weams said:

Definitely better than Clemente. Oh yes. 

But Clemente died in a tragic plane crash while trying to help people. Makes him a heroic figure. 

[Just Regular]

4 hours ago, SteveA said:

When talking about that era of hitters, I think a lot of people will talk about Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, and then stop.

Or they will add Clemente and Musial, and then stop.

Frank deserves to be above that line, not below it.   But I think in the consciousness of national baseball fans, he is one notch down and he should NOT be.  When he retired he was 4th in home runs behind only Aaron, Ruth, and Mays.

I think you are right and some of why is starring for two teams.  Mays on the Mets, and Aaron on the Brewers happened, but only as a garnish.  Cal's 12 WAR behind and Jeter another 20 behind Cal, but probably occupy bigger places than Frank in most consciousnesses.

[OFFNY]

3 hours ago, TonySoprano said:

 

57 hits from 3,000. If he wanted to be selfish, he could've gotten those numbers as player-manager with Cleveland. 600 HRs?  As was pointed out, he was 4th all-time when he retired and the "counting number" was 500 not 600.  
 

Mickey Mantle gets a lot more love than Frank and he had 2,415 hits and 536 HRs.

 

o

 

I think that it is questionable that he could have gotten to 3,000 hits if he had played himself more in 1975 and 1976 and/or if he had insisted on staying on the playing roster in 1977.

He had a very solid season in 1975, OPS-ing .894 in limited playing time (149 Plate Appearances.) 

He really went downhill in his next and final season in 1976, getting only 15 hits in even less playing time (79 Plate Appearances), while OPS-ing .694 for the season.

 

Perhaps if he had played himself more in 1975 he could have picked up an additional 15 hits or so (he had 28 for the season), but his ability had severely dropped off the following season, so I'm not sure if he could have gotten (at most) 10 to 15 more hits if he had played more in 1976 (he had 15 Hits for that season.)

 

He didn't want to retire from playing in between the 1976 and 1977 seasons, as I read in Xander Hollander's 1977 Complete Handbook of Baseball that he was still intent on achieving those 2 major miles (3,000 Hits and 600 HR's), but he accepted the reality that he probably couldn't contribute positively enough to warrant taking a spot on the roster.

 

So I give him credit for being unselfish in the manner in which he played himself in 1975 and 1976 (he played himself less than 1/3 of the season in 1975, and even less in 1976) ........ plus, he was also unselfish in accepting retirement as a player prior to the 1977 season. His best shot to get himself within major striking distance would have been to play himself more than he did in 1975, when he still had the ability of a serious Major League player (his OBP was .385, and his Slugging percentage was .508.)

 

The 1974 and 1975 seasons for Robinson were kind of a last hurrah for him, in a similar manner in which 1971 and 1972 were a last hurrah for Willie Mays ........ at the age of 40 and clearly past his prime in 1971, Mays still managed to lead the league in Walks and OBP (112 Walks, and a .425 OBP.) The following season in 1972, he had limited playing time (as did Robinson in 1975), but still managed a very solid .400 OBP (as did Robinson with is .385 OBP and his .508 Slugging Percentage.)

It's strange how similar Robinson's and Mays' final 3 season in the Major Leagues were ........ they both had solid seasons as full-time players in their 3rd-to-last seasons (1971 and 1974), they both had solid seasons in limited playing time in their 2nd-to-last seasons (1972 and 1975), and they both were clearly finished at a competitive level in their final seasons (1973 and 1976.)

 

o

[weams]

22 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

But Clemente died in a tragic plane crash while trying to help people. Makes him a heroic figure. 

Well sure. I’ve read about that flight.  That plane was never gonna fly.