Frank Robinson has passed

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

But Clemente died in a tragic plane crash while trying to help people. Makes him a heroic figure. 

Warning - WAR-based argument coming.

Frank: 107 WAR through age 40.

Clemente: 94 WAR through age 37.   He was worth 4.8 in the year he died.    It’s certainly arguable that if he hadn’t died, he would have been very close to Frank.   We will never know how well he would have aged from age 38 on.   

They were different style players.   Clemente had good not great power.   He was a better hitter than Frank for average, but didn’t walk a ton.  Overall, Frank was clearly the better hitter.    But equally clearly, Clemente was the better fielder.    His throwing arm was a sight to behold.     Probably the best I’ve ever seen.   Frank’s was average.   Clemente was faster, too.    

All told, they were both no doubt about it Hall of Famers.   I’d give Frank the edge, but it’s pretty close.   I’m sure some would disagree that Frank was better once you factor in defense.    

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

I

think that it is questionable that he could have gotten to 3,000 hits if he had played himself more in 1975 and 1976 and/or if he had insisted on staying on the playing roster in 1977.

He had a very solid season in 1975, OPS-ing .894 in limited playing time (149 Plate Appearances.) 

He really went downhill in his next and final season in 1976, getting only 15 hits in even less playing time (79 Plate Appearances), while OPS-ing .694 for the season.

Perhaps if he had played himself more in 1975 he could have picked up an additional 15 hits or so (he had 28 for the season), but his ability had severely dropped off the following season, so I'm not sure if he could have gotten (at most) 10 to 15 more hits if he had played more in 1976 (he had 15 Hits for that season.)

I have very little doubt that Frank could have made it to 3000 hits and 600 homers if he’d chosen to play himself more.    But that would have been an extremely selfish (dare I say, Pete Rose-ish?) thing to do.

When Frank joined the Indians, he had Rico Carty on his roster — great hitter, awful fielder.    There was really no good place to put him but DH, which was where Frank really needed to play.    So Carty got the lion’s share of the DH time and posted an .882 and .821 OPS in the two years Frank played.     It was the right call for the team.

[mrbig1]

Frank was my hero as a kid. Remember the 66 season very well. I would read the Washington post sports page every day just to track Frank's bid for the triple crown. Then to win our first WS. R.I.P. hero.

[TonySoprano]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

Perhaps if he had played himself more in 1975 he could have picked up an additional 15 hits or so (he had 28 for the season), but his ability had severely dropped off the following season, so I'm not sure if he could have gotten (at most) 10 to 15 more hits if he had played more in 1976 (he had 15 Hits for that season.)

 

He only appeared in 49 games in 1975 and had 28 hits, 9 of which were HRs.  Only 15 more hits in 1975?  Agree to disagree.

[Frobby]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/frank-robinson-superstar-slugger-and-trailblazer-1935-2019/

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

 

He only appeared in 49 games in 1975 and had 28 hits, 9 of which were HRs.  Only 15 more hits in 1975?  Agree to disagree.

 

o

 

Depending on how much more he would play himself.

I said 15 more hits (in addition to his 28) based on him playing about an additional 15 or 20 more games. He played in 49 games that season, and he declined severely the following season ........ hence I suspect that Frank knew his body well, and that was part of the reason why he did not play himself more than he did in '75 in spite of the solid numbers that he had that year. 

 

Perhaps I supposed/asserted too low with 15 ........ maybe he would have had 25 more hits if he had played an addition 20 to 30 more games than he did. 

 

Theoretically he could have played in an additional 50 or 60 more games than he did, but I'm not sure that he could have held up playing that much at that advanced stage in his career. As Frobby pointed out, the availability of the DH position was limited for the Indians that season with Rico Carty on the team.

 

o

[weams]

[TonySoprano]

4 minutes ago, weams said:

Seating 6'4" Boog next to 5'7" Earl - was the photographer having fun?

 

Yeah, Boog isn't quite 6'4" anymore but that was his listed height back in the day.

[OFFNY]

On 1/26/2019 at 5:18 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

Robinson has statues of himself in 3 different cities (Cincinnati, Baltimore, and Cleveland.)

That's quite a distinction.

 

Who can Claim Frank Robinson? The Legend Has Statues in 3 Different Cities

(By Merritt Rohlfing)

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2019/1/18/18187524/frank-robinson-hall-of-fame-orioles-reds-indians

 

 

 ooooooooooo oooooooooo 

 

o

o

 

Robinson MAY BE the only sports figure ever to have statues of himself erected in 3 different cities, but I am not absolutely certain. 

 

Ted Williams has 2 statues overall (one individual and one with 3 of his Red Sox teammates), but they are both in Boston ........ San Diego does not have one of him (yet.)

 

Babe Ruth has a statue of himself in Baltimore, but according to this article https://jerrythenovelist.com/2018/07/no-statue-of-babe-ruth-in-new-york/ , he DOES NOT have a statue of himself in New York City even though the entire Monument Park at Yankee Stadium is named after him  ........ plus, he easily could have one of himself erected in Boston due to his exploits with the Red Sox prior to his being traded to the Yankees.

 

This article from Sports Illustrated is from September of 2013, and although it is an extensive list, it is not complete ........ for starters, they only have one of Frank's 3 individual statues (the one which is in Cincinnati), nor does it include have any of the other 4 Orioles whom all had statues of themselves erected the previous year (2012) in Baltimore.

 

Sports Figures with Their Own Statues

(Sports Illustrated, September of 2013)

https://www.si.com/mlb/photos/2013/09/24/sports-figures-their-own-statues#7

 

o

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/frank-robinson-superstar-slugger-and-trailblazer-1935-2019/

Loved the Jim Murray quote that began this article:

”Frank Robinson always went into second base like a guy jumping through a skylight with a drawn Luger.”

[bobmc]

2 hours ago, weams said:

Is that @justD?

[bobmc]

Another great piece by Rick Vaughn, former Orioles PR man, showing another side of the great man:

"As we left the first young patient’s room and turned down the hallway, I glanced up at Frank. What I saw was tears. Tears in his eyes. Tears rolling down his face. I looked again.

It was at that moment that it came to me: I had known Frank for less than a year. In reality, until that moment, I hadn’t known him at all."

 

[bobmc]

On 2/7/2019 at 3:14 PM, Frobby said:

There is so much I could say.    But for now, I'll just quote from a thread I did on Frank's 75th birthday.

A huge piece of my childhood died today.

 

[TonySoprano]

 

[Frobby]

Yet another excellent piece on Frank in today’s Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/after-the-abuse-jackie-robinson-endured-frank-robinson-refused-to-take-it/2019/02/08/121c72d0-2bbe-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html?utm_term=.c41d07f6b598