Lucas and Scott up

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Maybe he doesn't have to throw a switch and figure it out and just stop walking batters.

                                                                                                           
Rk                 Player  BB9 ERA+     IP From   To   Age    G  GS SHO  GF   W   L  SV   BB   SO  ERA  FIP
1          Mitch Williams 7.08  111  691.1 1986 1997 21-32  619   3   0 419  45  58 192  544  660 3.65 4.44
2           Carlos Marmol 6.16  121  577.0 2006 2014 23-31  519  13   0 259  23  35 117  395  744 3.57 3.95
3         Scott Sauerbeck 5.66  118  386.1 1999 2006 27-34  471   0   0  98  20  17   5  243  389 3.82 4.17
4             Matt Mantei 5.58  110  322.2 1995 2005 21-31  315   0   0 196  14  18  93  200  396 4.07 3.92
5              Rod Scurry 5.35  117  460.2 1980 1988 24-32  332   7   0 145  19  32  39  274  431 3.24 3.63
6            Mark Littell 5.14  114  532.0 1973 1982 20-29  316  19   0 181  32  31  56  304  466 3.32 3.33
7             J.C. Romero 5.10  110  661.1 1999 2012 23-36  680  22   0 128  34  28   7  375  526 4.16 4.53
8              Eric Plunk 5.06  112 1151.0 1986 1999 22-35  714  41   0 234  72  58  35  647 1081 3.82 4.21
9                Jim Kern 5.04  116  793.1 1974 1986 25-37  416  14   0 254  53  57  88  444  651 3.32 3.40
10       Scott Williamson 5.00  136  439.1 1999 2007 23-31  344  10   0 137  28  28  55  244  510 3.36 3.56
11               AJ Ramos 4.92  126  366.0 2012 2018 25-31  374   0   0 197  17  18  99  200  426 3.07 3.41
12            Jeff Nelson 4.91  133  784.2 1992 2006 25-39  798   0   0 237  48  45  33  428  829 3.41 3.73
13           Jake Diekman 4.84  111  317.2 2012 2019 25-32  372   0   0  75  14  15   7  171  390 3.77 3.30
14         Mike MacDougal 4.84  112  394.0 2001 2012 24-35  407   3   0 209  18  23  71  212  325 4.00 4.06
15           Sam McDowell 4.74  112 2492.1 1961 1975 18-32  425 346  23  39 141 134  14 1312 2453 3.17 3.06
16          Sammy Stewart 4.72  111  956.2 1978 1987 23-32  359  25   1 181  59  48  45  502  586 3.59 4.17
17             Paul Shuey 4.70  120  530.0 1994 2007 23-36  476   0   0 156  45  28  23  277  556 3.87 3.70
18             Nolan Ryan 4.67  112 5386.0 1966 1993 19-46  807 773  61  13 324 292   3 2795 5714 3.19 2.97
19        Armando Benitez 4.66  140  779.0 1994 2008 21-35  762   0   0 527  40  47 289  403  946 3.13 3.86
20              Doug Sisk 4.59  113  523.1 1982 1991 24-33  332   0   0 161  22  20  33  267  195 3.27 4.04
21         Tippy Martinez 4.59  112  834.0 1974 1988 24-38  546   2   0 320  55  42 115  425  632 3.45 3.57
22          Curt Leskanic 4.57  116  712.2 1993 2004 25-36  603  11   0 244  50  34  55  362  641 4.36 4.36
23        Ricky Bottalico 4.52  110  628.2 1994 2005 24-35  562   0   0 301  33  42 116  316  575 3.99 4.37
24             Rob Dibble 4.49  129  477.0 1988 1995 24-31  385   0   0 204  27  25  89  238  645 2.98 2.43
25        Fernando Rodney 4.45  111  891.1 2002 2019 25-42  903   0   0 579  48  67 325  441  899 3.76 3.75
26              B.J. Ryan 4.43  133  536.2 1999 2009 23-33  560   0   0 249  21  28 117  264  625 3.37 3.33
27          Ted Abernathy 4.43  129  913.2 1960 1972 27-39  610   0   0 400  55  47 149  450  618 2.80 3.45
28            Gregg Olson 4.42  123  672.0 1988 2001 21-34  622   0   0 447  40  39 217  330  588 3.46 3.64

There's a number of well-regarded Orioles on that list.  Anyone else remember Tippy walking almost as many as Tanner Scott has in his career?  Or Sammy Stewart?  Or BJ Ryan?  Or Gregg Olson? Most of those guys didn't have anything close to 12 K/9.
 

I have to admit, I definitely didn’t remember Tippy walking so many guys.    Perhaps that’s because compared to Don Stanhouse, he was Greg Maddux!   I do remember Olson and Stewart walking a lot of guys.   BJ Ryan, not as much, but he didn’t walk nearly as many in his last 2 years for us, which are the years we tend to remember with him.  

[Enjoy Terror]

https://www.rotoballer.com/finding-the-next-josh-hader-undervalued-relievers/621997

This site shows Branden Kline and Scott being future fantasy darlings. “The next Josh Hader”.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

https://www.rotoballer.com/finding-the-next-josh-hader-undervalued-relievers/621997

This site shows Branden Kline and Scott being future fantasy darlings. “The next Josh Hader”.

OK then, let’s trade them for a mediocre 30 year old starter with two years of control remaining.   

[AnythingO's]

10 hours ago, SurhoffRules said:

While not as low of an ERA, Brad Bergesen threw 123 innings as a starter to a 3.43 ERA with similar peripherals to Bleier in 2009 . His next 271 innings in Baltimore didn't go near as well. 

Pretty sure Bergy hurt his shoulder airing it out for a photo shoot on the "Calvary" and was never the same after.

[LA2]

4 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

Pretty sure Bergy hurt his shoulder airing it out for a photo shoot on the "Calvary" and was never the same after.

There was also the line drive off his shin that ended his fine 2009 season--the one where people thought he could have been RoY.

[sportsfan8703]

Might as well have called up Mike Scott and George Lucas. 

[SurhoffRules]

11 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

Pretty sure Bergy hurt his shoulder airing it out for a photo shoot on the "Calvary" and was never the same after.

 

7 hours ago, LA2 said:

There was also the line drive off his shin that ended his fine 2009 season--the one where people thought he could have been RoY.

So pitcher with wonky low-K rate that depends on ground balls gets injured and fails to replicate his success from the previous 100+ innings?

I've enjoyed watching Bleier as much as the next guy and he's been an important part of the bullpen, I'm just not convinced that he's a lock or even probable to return to his previous dominance going forward. Does that mean he's not useful? No. Just means I've got my reservations and wouldn't be grossly upset if they go a different direction if he continues to struggle.

[sportsfan8703]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

OK then, let’s trade them for a mediocre 30 year old starter with two years of control remaining.   

What would Hader have done for this franchise looking at the big picture?  Not more wins the last two years. At least Norris pitched his butt off against Detroit and we won that playoff series. I’m 35, I haven’t seen much winning, I’ll take that playoff series win. 

Who knows, with us Hader could’ve been rushed and just be Tanner Scott. Plus gotta give the O’s some credit for drafting Hader in like the 20th round. 

[sportsfan8703]

12 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

Pretty sure Bergy hurt his shoulder airing it out for a photo shoot on the "Calvary" and was never the same after.

You don’t think the comebacker that broke his leg when he was leading the AL in ERA had anything to do with it?  

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

OK then, let’s trade them for a mediocre 30 year old starter with two years of control remaining.   

 

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What would Hader have done for this franchise looking at the big picture?  Not more wins the last two years. At least Norris pitched his butt off against Detroit and we won that playoff series. I’m 35, I haven’t seen much winning, I’ll take that playoff series win. 

Who knows, with us Hader could’ve been rushed and just be Tanner Scott. Plus gotta give the O’s some credit for drafting Hader in like the 20th round. 

I really made my post more as a joke than a serious comment.   And I think I was essentially neutral on the Norris trade when we made it.    But I think we made too many trades and other moves like that in the 2012-17 period and that’s why one Josh Hader wouldn’t fix this franchise now.