Can Means become the Orioles’ version of Kuechel?

[Camden_yardbird]

12 minutes ago, 25 Nuggets said:

I'm not confident what Means is doing is sustainable.  If he finishes the season well I wonder what returns he could get in a winter trade.

He has shown to be a pitcher who can improve.  I would like to see what he can do on his breaking pitches.

Other than K rate being low I dont know that I see anything that indicates he is going to become a pumpkin.

He has a decent GB rate (did not get a single one yesterday though), and exactly the level of sustainable HR/FB (10%) you would hope out of someone who is putching in OPACY.

[ChuckS]

53 minutes ago, 25 Nuggets said:

I'm not confident what Means is doing is sustainable.  If he finishes the season well I wonder what returns he could get in a winter trade.

I don’t think anyone looks at Means as an ace and few look at him long term is a TOR. Even though he has put up TOR numbers so far. So I don’t think you are going to get a TOR return in a trade.

I like him as a mid-rotation piece and I see no reason to try to trade him anytime soon. 

[DrungoHazewood]

On 7/25/2019 at 9:00 AM, 25 Nuggets said:

I'm not confident what Means is doing is sustainable.  If he finishes the season well I wonder what returns he could get in a winter trade.

What would you trade for a pitcher who you believe has an unsustainable path to success?

[25 Nuggets]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:05 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

What would you trade for a pitcher who you believe has an unsustainable path to success?

fair point; in order for a trade to be successful the other GM would have to disagree with my opinion.

[OFFNY]

On 7/25/2019 at 9:00 AM, 25 Nuggets said:

 

I'm not confident what Means is doing is sustainable. If he finishes the season well, I wonder what returns he could get in a winter trade.

 

 

 

On 7/26/2019 at 10:05 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

 

What would you trade for a pitcher who you believe has an unsustainable path to success ???

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, 25 Nuggets said:

 

Fair point; in order for a trade to be successful, the other GM would have to disagree with my opinion.

 

o

 

This is mildly reminiscent from years back, when somebody asserted that Matt Wieters was highly overrated, and an average at best catcher ........ and then proposed that we trade him for a top-of-the-rotation starter. 

 

o

[DrungoHazewood]

36 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

This is mildly reminiscent from years back, when somebody asserted that Matt Wieters was highly overrated, and an average at best catcher ........ and then proposed that we trade him for a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Essentially all trades discussed online involve at least a few suggestions of "We know he's about to tank, but clearly the 29 other GMs of MLB teams don't.  So we need to jump now, before they read this thread."

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Essentially all trades discussed online involve at least a few suggestions of "We know he's about to tank, but clearly the 29 other GMs of MLB teams don't.  So we need to jump now, before they read this thread."

Might be a viable strategy if Smoke was still a GM.

[25 Nuggets]

19 hours ago, OFFNY said:

This is mildly reminiscent from years back, when somebody asserted that Matt Wieters was highly overrated, and an average at best catcher ........ and then proposed that we trade him for a top-of-the-rotation starter. o

Now hold on, I don't want people to think I'd ask for an established major league star here.  I'd want five 17 year old shortstops from Venezuela.  Specifically.

[OFFNY]

20 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

This is mildly reminiscent from years back, when somebody asserted that Matt Wieters was highly overrated, and an average at best catcher ........ and then proposed that we trade him for a top-of-the-rotation starter. 

 

o

 

 

4 minutes ago, 25 Nuggets said:

 

Now hold on, I don't want people to think I'd ask for an established Major League star here. I'd want five 17 year-old shortstops from Venezuela ........ specifically.

 

o

 

That's why I said mildly reminiscent ........ it touches on the same subject, but with different variables. 

 

o

[Greg Pappas]

 

[OFFNY]

o

 

This was Means' 1st start after a brief stint on the IL. 

He had bad outings in 2 out of his 3 previous starts prior to that minor injury.

He started well tonight, then was knocked around in the 4th inning.

 

 

11 OUTS: )5 Strikeouts, 3 Flyouts, 2 Foulouts, 1 Popout

 

JOHN ALAN MEANS )))))) (vs. YANKEES, 8/07)

IP:ll3.67

H:llll 5 )l (1 Home Run, 2 Doubles, 2 Singles)   

R:lllll 4

BB:ll1 

SO:ll5

Pitches: )l 80) (53 )Strikes, )27 )Balls) 

2019 ERA: ))3.36  ))  101.67 IP  (38 ER) 

2019 WHIP: ))1.161  ))  101.67 IP  (118 H/BB)

2019 OPPONENTS BATTING AVG: )).234 ) (90 for 385) 

 

PITCHES BY INNING

*************************

11 ll(81 llStrikes, lll31 lllBalls)

23 ll(15 llStrikes, lll81 lllBalls)

14 ll(91 llStrikes, lll51 lllBalls)

32 ll(21 llStrikes, ll11 llllBalls) ) *

 

* )) Means recorded 2 outs before departing in the 4th inning.

 

o

[sportsfan8703]

Means is for real. He comes off the IL. No rehab stint. He immediately had the hottest lineup in MLB baffled. You just don’t luck into that. 

The only fluke with Means last night was the breaking ball he hung to Urshela. 

[TonySoprano]

Interesting article on Means' change-up
 

Quote

The easiest way to see the link between how a player thinks about a pitch and the resulting movement is when the cue is mechanical. John Means in Baltimore had a decent fastball, but his changeup was only about 5 or 6 miles per hour slower than his fastball, and it didn’t have much movement. He talked with his pitching coordinator Chris Holt, who gave him a tiny bit of advice that stuck.

“How I was taught it was to throw it like my fastball, and got behind it, and it was too hard,” Means said. “It looked like my fastball, but it was too close to my fastball. Holt told me to think about pronating more.”

Pronating is basically a move of your wrist and hand toward the thumb near the end of release. Everyone naturally pronates when they throw, possibly as a result of releasing the ball off the dominant fingers, but by focusing on pronating, Means ended up deadening the pitch and removing velocity. Now only six changeups have a bigger velocity gap than Means’ does.

It’s amazing that one little piece of advice could do that, but Means insists there weren’t that many drills, that this was really all there was to it.

“Nolan Ryan did a drill where he would take a circle and throw it, a drill where he’d throw the circle at the catcher without a ball,” Means acknowleged, but he didn’t do many of those drills. “Holt told me that in the spring, and I made a mental of note of it, and we opened in New York, and I threw one, and it did something different, and the hitter took a bad swing. Oh, I think I’ll try that again. So I threw it like 75 percent of the time in my first outing.”

So here was the first change that came with the new thought process, a change that altered Means’ life.

 

 

 

[sportsfan8703]

I’m not down on Means and neither should anyone. 2 starts off the IL against the hottest team in MLB. Means has the makeup to learn from this. His next start is looking like KC. I’ll go out on a limb and say he’ll be his old self. 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m not down on Means and neither should anyone. 2 starts off the IL against the hottest team in MLB. Means has the makeup to learn from this. His next start is looking like KC. I’ll go out on a limb and say he’ll be his old self. 

I am not down on him but if he is still hurt he needs to be shut down. Live to fight another day.