Since They Became An Official Stat

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

Wow...just Wow..

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlbvideos/steve-phillips-sounds-off-on-the-orioles-allowing-a-position-player-to-record-the-save/vi-AAEU94l?ocid=spartanntp

Damn, I'm out in public and can't listen to that right now.  But I'll just say that I can't believe Steve Phillips is still paid to give his opinions on baseball to a national audience.

[interloper]

Lol Steve Phillips. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

18 minutes ago, interloper said:

Lol Steve Phillips. 

Guess not having interns to take advantage of anymore has old Steve cranky. What a clown. 

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, BRobinsonfan said:

I see what you're saying, but what if they just said "in the last 40 years" or "since 1969."  We have all kinds of discussions on here that qualify performance by things like "the dead ball era, pre-DH," etc.  I think the "stat" while meaningless (it's not like the O's are grooming non-pitchers to pitch in save situations) is still interesting in the way that most coincidences are interesting.  

 

That's fine, because if they'd said something like "Since WWII" it is (probably) true.  But they said ever.  And it's not ever.  It took me two minutes on bb-ref to find another one.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I'm actually shocked that A-Rod is #3 all-time and Barry Bonds didn't break 2000.

It was easier to get RBI back in the day before wall-to-wall power hitters.  In 1930 lots of little guys hit .380 or walked 100 times and they'd all be on base when Gehrig and Ruth and Foxx came up.  Now your leadoff guy and #2 hitter are almost as likely to clear the bases with a homer as anybody else in the lineup.

[DrungoHazewood]

59 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I hope I can get to meet and be friends with Drungo someday so I can see him yelling at kids to get off his lawn when he's an old man.

But I'll be like a bitter old man double agent, lamenting that the old days are gone and everything is now way better.

[VaBird1]

16 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Guess not having interns to take advantage of anymore has old Steve cranky. What a clown. 

He has -0.5 WAR as a position player.  0.2 as a pitcher.  Would have been great if someone had brought that up to Steve Phillips 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, VaBird1 said:

He has -0.5 WAR as a position player.  0.2 as a pitcher.  Would have been great if someone had brought that up to Steve Phillips 

Better pitcher than defensive center fielder. I have no doubt about that. 

[BRobinsonfan]

On 7/26/2019 at 1:55 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

That's fine, because if they'd said something like "Since WWII" it is (probably) true.  But they said ever.  And it's not ever.  It took me two minutes on bb-ref to find another one.

I'm just curious... who did you find?  Did you see that the HOF wants Stevie's hat and glove for an exhibit?  https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-stevie-wilkerson-cooperstown-20190728-a5gxkolgjva2bcmhkjimclg75m-story.html

[SteveA]

On 7/26/2019 at 1:01 PM, ChrisP said:

Wow...just Wow..

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlbvideos/steve-phillips-sounds-off-on-the-orioles-allowing-a-position-player-to-record-the-save/vi-AAEU94l?ocid=spartanntp

God what an idiot.

[Morgan423]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:29 AM, Philip said:

Also very ironic that arguably the worst pitching performance of the game earned Scott the win.

 

 

On 7/26/2019 at 10:31 AM, BRobinsonfan said:

Yeah... underscores how meaningless the "w" stat can be.  

Also how worthless official scorers can be...  they have leeway under the rules to give the win to another, deserving pitcher if the guy who letter-of-the-law "earned" it was flat out terrible.

[SteveA]

25 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

 

Also how worthless official scorers can be...  they have leeway under the rules to give the win to another, deserving pitcher if the guy who letter-of-the-law "earned" it was flat out terrible.

Really?   I thought it had to go to the guy who was the pitcher of record when the team went ahead for the last time.

I thought the only leeway they had is if the starter doesn't go 5, and leaves with a lead that the team never gives up, the win can be awarded to the pitcher deemed most effective.

[Morgan423]

4 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Really?   I thought it had to go to the guy who was the pitcher of record when the team went ahead for the last time.

I thought the only leeway they had is if the starter doesn't go 5, and leaves with a lead that the team never gives up, the win can be awarded to the pitcher deemed most effective.

From the MLB rules glossary (italics emphasis mine):

Win (W)

Definition

A pitcher receives a win when he is the pitcher of record when his team takes the lead for good -- with a couple rare exceptions. First, a starting pitcher must pitch at least five innings (in a traditional game of nine innings or longer) to qualify for the win. If he does not, the official scorer awards the win to the most effective relief pitcher.

There is also a rarely used clause where an official scorer can deem a relief pitcher's appearance "brief and ineffective." (For example, if a reliever relinquished a one-run lead by allowing three runs, but was still in line for a win after his team scored four runs in the following inning -- that may qualify.) If that's the case, the scorer can award the win to a pitcher who followed that "brief and ineffective" pitcher. Which relief pitcher earns the win specifically is also up to the judgment of the official scorer.

[SteveA]

Just now, Morgan423 said:

From the MLB rules glossary (italics emphasis mine):

Win (W)

Definition

A pitcher receives a win when he is the pitcher of record when his team takes the lead for good -- with a couple rare exceptions. First, a starting pitcher must pitch at least five innings (in a traditional game of nine innings or longer) to qualify for the win. If he does not, the official scorer awards the win to the most effective relief pitcher.

There is also a rarely used clause where an official scorer can deem a relief pitcher's appearance "brief and ineffective." (For example, if a reliever relinquished a one-run lead by allowing three runs, but was still in line for a win after his team scored four runs in the following inning -- that may qualify.) If that's the case, the scorer can award the win to a pitcher who followed that "brief and ineffective" pitcher. Which relief pitcher earns the win specifically is also up to the judgment of the official scorer.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

So he could have awarded Wilkerson the win, depriving him of the save.   Interesting.