Jump to content

Are we witnessing the death of the Orioles?


Todd-O

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I disliked the old location, getting to it was a nightmare, parking was absolutely dreadful, dont plan on leaving early, or even when the game is over, if the people around you, decided to hang out elsewhere.

To me OPACY was simple, easy to get to, easy parking, and love the stadium

The week I graduated from high school two friends and I drove the family station wagon to go see the O's beat Nolan Ryan and the Rangers.  Long before GPS.  We knew how to get there, but they blocked off 33rd St. going east after the game, so we didn't know how to get back.  We just drove south until we hit the harbor and were fine, but there were and still are some very dicey areas between 33rd St. and the Inner Harbor.  Especially at midnight, with three St. Mary's county boys driving Clark Griswold's car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The week I graduated from high school two friends and I drove the family station wagon to go see the O's beat Nolan Ryan and the Rangers.  Long before GPS.  We knew how to get there, but they blocked off 33rd St. going east after the game, so we didn't know how to get back.  We just drove south until we hit the harbor and were fine, but there were and still are some very dicey areas between 33rd St. and the Inner Harbor.  Especially at midnight, with three St. Mary's county boys driving Clark Griswold's car.

Thats funny, reminds me of driving me and my friends, in the dad mobile, an old Chevy Sedan. I wasnt allowed to drive in Baltimore for night games, only daytime games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Memorial Stadium had a lot of good memories, for the Orioles and me, but it was basically a big concrete horseshoe that was clearly designed with football in mind as much as baseball.  More than once I had seats with huge concrete pillars obstructing the view, and/or overhanging upper deck that made flyballs disappear.  The amenities were straight out of 1950.  But luckily I was a kid most of the time I went there so it was great.  I didn't know anything different; there wasn't anything much different in that era.

I would have liked to have seen it in 1950s configuration when the LC-CF-RC "fence" was a hedge 450-some feet away. 

I always sat in the bleachers so  I didn't have any obstructions.  Much nicer amenities than Wrigley field.  I mean it worked.  Camden Yards is much better but Memorial Stadium was fine as a free stadium for the team.  Memorial Stadium had a surreal feel to it which Camden Yards doesn't.  Plus the fans were a lot more fun back then.  Of course, I was in my twenties when Camden Yards opened.  Perhaps I would like the fans there now.  

I lived in Fells Point the first year it opened and I think Bleacher seats were something like $4.50.   Went to a ton of games that year.  But that was the first time I ever saw fans having off topic conversations during the game.  I remember seeing two women talk the whole game in the Bleachers at Camden Yards and I was shocked.  In the Bleachers at Memorial Stadium, you drank beer, shouted insults at the opposing teams outfielders, banged on the metal benches,shouted charge and high fived your fellow fans. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, atomic said:

I always sat in the bleachers so  I didn't have any obstructions.  Much nicer amenities than Wrigley field.  I mean it worked.  Camden Yards is much better but Memorial Stadium was fine as a free stadium for the team.  Memorial Stadium had a surreal feel to it which Camden Yards doesn't.  Plus the fans were a lot more fun back then.  Of course, I was in my twenties when Camden Yards opened.  Perhaps I would like the fans there now.  

I lived in Fells Point the first year it opened and I think Bleacher seats were something like $4.50.   Went to a ton of games that year.  But that was the first time I ever saw fans having off topic conversations during the game.  I remember seeing two women talk the whole game in the Bleachers at Camden Yards and I was shocked.  In the Bleachers at Memorial Stadium, you drank beer, shouted insults at the opposing teams outfielders, banged on the metal benches,shouted charge and high fived your fellow fans. 

But for most of the time the Orioles were at Memorial they drew like 13,000 fans a game to see 90+ win teams.  In some ways 13,000 fans in a 54,000 seat stadium can be more fun than a sellout.  Especially when you could bring in a huge cooler full of whatever to drink.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

I disliked the old location, getting to it was a nightmare, parking was absolutely dreadful, dont plan on leaving early, or even when the game is over, if the people around you, decided to hang out elsewhere.

To me OPACY was simple, easy to get to, easy parking, and love the stadium

I used to just park in the neighborhoods for free.  Or take the bus.  Camden Yards was great though as I could walk from Fells Point to the game.  A little bit better these days as the area where Harbor East is today was pretty dicey back then. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

I disliked the old location, getting to it was a nightmare, parking was absolutely dreadful, dont plan on leaving early, or even when the game is over, if the people around you, decided to hang out elsewhere.

To me OPACY was simple, easy to get to, easy parking, and love the stadium

I loved Memorial.  Though honestly my memories are fuzzy.  I remember the poles and the "feel" of history.  And I learned there that if you go to a baseball game you stay until it's over...always.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Memorial Stadium had a surreal feel to it which Camden Yards doesn't. 

Explain.  I loved Memorial Stadium, but surreal is not a word I’d use to describe it.    
 

I like the architecture and location of OPACY way better, but there was a blue collar feel to the Memorial Stadium crowd that OPACY has never replicated.    Not that I’m blue collar myself, but I appreciated the vibe.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

But for most of the time the Orioles were at Memorial they drew like 13,000 fans a game to see 90+ win teams.  In some ways 13,000 fans in a 54,000 seat stadium can be more fun than a sellout.  Especially when you could bring in a huge cooler full of whatever to drink.

In 1969, the Yankees barely out drew the Orioles in avg attendance.

13,3 to 13,2.

They wasnt far from the top 10.

What really blows my mind, Montreal drew 14.9k fans daily avg. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

In 1969, the Yankees barely out drew the Orioles in avg attendance.

13,3 to 13,2.

They wasnt far from the top 10.

What really blows my mind, Montreal drew 14.9k fans daily avg. 

Montreal was an expansion team in 1969, so there was a novelty factor in play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Montreal was an expansion team in 1969, so there was a novelty factor in play.

Although they played in Stade Parc Jerry, which had been a 3000-seat minor league park expanded to 28,000 or so when the Expos were invented.  Imagine throwing up a bunch of metal bleachers around PG County Stadium or Grove Stadium and calling it a major league park.  I'm sure it was great for Quebec to have a team, but it's not like anyone came out for the stadium.  But I suppose in 1969 nobody came out for the stadium anywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

What really blows my mind, Montreal drew 14.9k fans daily avg. 

Until they blew up the team in the 1990s and let Stade Olympique fall into disrepair Montreal drew pretty well.  In '83 they were second in the NL in attendance.  From 1979-84 they were never lower than 4th.  Even in 1996 they were below MLB average but out-drew the Giants, Mets, Twins, and others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

In 1969, the Yankees barely out drew the Orioles in avg attendance.

13,3 to 13,2.

They wasnt far from the top 10.

What really blows my mind, Montreal drew 14.9k fans daily avg. 

Ah, the good old days -- in 1969 both the NYYs and their playing field (headed for a re-modeling four years later) were in pretty bad shape. They finished fifth in the top-heavy AL East. (It was the first year of divisional play.)

Meanwhile, the Mets were thriving in their first successful season, including a late summer competition with the front-running-and-then-collapsing Cubs. The Mets won the AL East and were first in MLB attendance with a 26.5k average. I think they might have made it to the World Series, but my memory is pretty hazy about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Although they played in Stade Parc Jerry, which had been a 3000-seat minor league park expanded to 28,000 or so when the Expos were invented.  Imagine throwing up a bunch of metal bleachers around PG County Stadium or Grove Stadium and calling it a major league park.  I'm sure it was great for Quebec to have a team, but it's not like anyone came out for the stadium.  But I suppose in 1969 nobody came out for the stadium anywhere.

Save for maaaayybe the Astrodome, but as it would've been already 4 years old in '69, that novelty may have worn/been wearing off by that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, McLikin said:

Save for maaaayybe the Astrodome, but as it would've been already 4 years old in '69, that novelty may have worn/been wearing off by that point.

That's a good point.  I had to go look at the effect...

At Colt Stadium the Astros never drew 1 million, with 758k in 1964.  Then the first year in the Astrodome they almost tripled attendance to 2.1M.  That fell off over a couple years to 1.3-1.4M.  Then fell again in the early 70s, to the point where in 1975 they were down to almost where they'd been in the old park.  Then they got good in '79-80 and it went back over 2M.

So the real honeymoon for the Dome was only a couple years, since by '67 they were back to 5th in the NL in attendance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • Thanks for the detailed explanation of all of the issues.  Sounds like a mess.
    • Yeah the amenities are pretty outdated at the yard and they seem to do nothing year over year to improve them. The touchscreens have been banged on to death to the point they barely function, so you can't accurately fill out your order at the kiosks, and they don't have a way for the people behind the counter to ring you up at many of the food places. The sound is low to non-existent in certain sections of the club level, like around 218. Seems like there should be speakers that reach there but they might have been damaged by rain, etc. and they are too lazy to fix them. If you go to a game that's even slightly busy, you will wait forever to get into the bathroom, and the sink will be an absolute mess with no soap or paper towels. It's even worse on the club level where they have one sink that's right by the door. Nearby businesses don't care, either. The Hilton parking garage reeks of decay, pot and human waste. They don't turn on the air circulation fans, even if cars are waiting for an hour and a half to exit from P3, filling up the air with carbon monoxide. They only let you enter the stadium with one 20 oz bottle of water. It's so expensive to buy a drink or water in the stadium, but with all the salty food, 20 oz of water isn't enough, especially on a hot day. Vegetarian food options are poor to none, other than things like chips, fries, hot pretzels and the occasional pizza. Vida Taco is better, but at an inconvenient location for many seats. The doors on the club level are not accessible. They're anti-accessible. Big, heavy doors you have to go through to get to/from the escalators, and big, heavy doors to get to your seats, none of them automatic (or even with the option to be automatic with a button press). Makes it hard to carry food out to your seats even if not handicapped. The furniture in the lounges on the club level seem designed to allow as few people as possible to sit down. Not great when we have so many rain delays during the season. Should put more, smaller chairs in and allow more of the club level ticket holders to have a seat while waiting for thunderstorms to pass. They keep a lot of the entrance/exit gates closed except for playoff/sellout games, which means people have to slowly "mooooo" all the way down Eutaw St to get to parking. They are too cheap to staff all the gates, so they make people exit by the warehouse, even though it would be a lot more convenient for many fans to open all the gates. Taking Light Rail would be super convenient, except that if there's at least 20k fans in attendance, it's common to have to wait 90-120 minutes to be able to board a non-full train heading toward Glen Burnie. A few trains might come by, but they are already full, or fill up fast when folks walk up to the Convention Center stop to pre-empt the folks trying to board at Camden Station. None of the garages in the area are set up to require pre-payment on entry (reservation, or give them your card / digital payment at the entrance till). If they were, emptying out the garage would be very quick, as they wouldn't need to ticket anyone on the way out: if you can't get in without paying, you can always just leave without having to stop and scan your phone or put a ticket in the machine. They shut down the Sports Legends Museum at Camden Station in 2015 because the Maryland Stadium Authority was too greedy. That place was a fun distraction if you were in the area when a game wasn't about to start, like if you show up super early on Opening Day or a playoff day. Superbook's restaurant on Eutaw is a huge downgrade from Dempsey's in terms of menu and service quality. Dempsey's used to be well-staffed, you could reserve a table online, and they had all kinds of great selection for every diet. Superbook seems like just another bar serving the same swill that the rest of the park serves, with extremely minimal and low-quality food. For that matter, most of the food at the stadium is very low quality these days. A lot of things we used to love are made to a lower standard now if they are served at all. These are gripes about the stadium and the area that haven't changed my entire adult life. Going to an O's game requires one to tolerate many small inconveniences and several major inconveniences, any number of which could easily be fixed by the relevant authorities if they gave a damn about the people who pay to come see the team play. You would think a mid-market team would be able to afford to invest in the fan experience. You would think the city and partnering organizations like garages, the Stadium Authority and MTA would at least try to do their part to make the experience enjoyable and free of kinks. You would think they would put some thought into handling the "growing pains" of the fanbase due to recent renewed interest after the dark years. Instead, all we get is the same indifference and the same annoyances year in and year out. The whole area is overdue for a revamp. Not sure if $600 mil will get it done, but at least it's a start. Hopefully they can start to patch up some of the many holes in the fan experience. If you're not going to invest in Burnes, at least make it so paying customers have an easier, more enjoyable time getting to/from the stadium and having some food while we're there.
    • Elias has only been in rebuild mode with the O's so there's not much to speculate on there.  Houston, where he spent his formative years, doesn't seem to like to be on the hook for more than a couple of big long-term contracts at any given time.  I can see that as being Elias' choice as well, albeit with a lower overall cost - Houston runs a big payroll.  But it's all guesswork.  I really don't know. If Elias takes the 2025 payroll to $150 million it will creep up to $200 million or so by 2028 just from keeping the core together.  That's where I start to wonder about sustainability due to market size, economic forces, etc., etc., etc... If it were up to me, I would add a couple of free agents this offseason even if the contracts were longer than ideal and be conservative about extensions elsewhere until the prospects establish themselves a little better.  I think there's a competitive opportunity that the team is already into that's worth exploiting. I think ownership is very happy to have Elias on board and they're not inclined to force him to do anything.  I also think Rubenstein's demonstrated business prowess is great enough to assume that he has had plenty enough time to come to a mutual understanding with Elias as to goals.
    • We need a RH O’hearn…in addition to Westburg. At least 3 batters that will push up the pitch count and cause damage in the top 5 of the lineup.
    • Boy,  that Jackson Merrill is a good young player that is playing his best ball down the season stretch and in the playoffs.   He's only 21.  I guess some young guys are able to play up to the pressure.   Who could have guessed that?
    • I’m aware.   You are arguing something im Not.
    • What agreement? The agreement you are talking about happened as a result of the move.  The MASN agreement would not have existed if Angelos had gone to court to block the move.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...