Can anyone vent how hard to wait on rebuild?

[oriolediehard]

It is so hard to stomach the O's rebuild. I know it needs to be done, but it is hard to take. The season hasn't even started yet and we know we are facing a more than 110 loss season. It is so hard watching other teams making moves while we trade away our 2 best players for what little hope we can have for an entertaining season. 

 

[owknows]

Stick some kids out there and see what happens. Sometimes things just click, and things turn out better than you expect. And if not, you get to see progress if nothing else.

[CallMeBrooksie]

Maybe they can discontinue the divisional standings flags on the flag court until further notice. Make them all O's flags... Or one giant O's flag... OR raise one flag for every Chris Davis HR

[Redskins Rick]

At least there is an educated plan in place and the team appears to be moving in the right direction. Hiring good people and expanding their scouting departments and getting into the international market.

The 14 year period of dark baseball here was worse, we had clowns in charge, a micromanager owner, and bad baseball on the field.

 

[weams]

2 hours ago, oriolediehard said:

It is so hard to stomach the O's rebuild. I know it needs to be done, but it is hard to take. The season hasn't even started yet and we know we are facing a more than 110 loss season. It is so hard watching other teams making moves while we trade away our 2 best players for what little hope we can have for an entertaining season. 

 

You think they have half a billion laying around to play with this off season even if they were a competitive team?  That;s what it would have taken to play in these deep waters. The Orioles will NEVER be there. 

[Moose Milligan]

Isn't this what we do every day on here?

[Pickles]

There needs to be an epic rant thread on the main board for the frustration of what will come, has come, and is coming as we speak.

Upside: An epic Reynolds and sunflower seeds meme.

Downside: Losing half the board in epic flamewars.

What do ya'll think?  

[interloper]

I think y'all are crazy, I'm having a blast with this rebuild. I sincerely mean that. The organization is so much more interesting than it's been since the three playoff runs. Check back with me in 3 years and if we're in the same spot I'll be venting. Until then, I'm eating all this up and having a good time seeing how it shakes out.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, oriolediehard said:

It is so hard to stomach the O's rebuild. I know it needs to be done, but it is hard to take. The season hasn't even started yet and we know we are facing a more than 110 loss season. It is so hard watching other teams making moves while we trade away our 2 best players for what little hope we can have for an entertaining season. 

I know we’ll be awful, but I certainly don’t know that we’ll lose 110+.    That’s hard to do.   I believe it’s only happened 4 times this century — 2004 Diamondbacks, 2013 Astros, 2018 Orioles and 2019 Tigers.     Obviously, it has happened more often recently, and with Bundy and Villar gone from a 108 loss team, we definitely could lose 110+.    But I’d say the odds are only about 50-50.    

I’m not having that hard a time with it.    I had a much harder time with losing 115 in 2018 when I wasn’t expecting it.   
 

[Moose Milligan]

I also don't really get any of the incessant whining about this rebuild.  Most of us were around for 1998-2011.  This is practically nothing in comparison.

I mean, what would you want instead?  A team like the 2003 version?  Fat Ponson, Jay Gibbons?

What about the 2004 team?  That was the year we went all in, pushed our chips to the middle of the table and thought Miguel Tejada, Javy Lopez and Raffy 2.0 were going to transform this franchise and get us back to our winning ways.  But hey, they won 78 games!!!!   

 Would you prefer a squad like the 2009 team?  Brad Bergesen was our leader in WAR with 3.3 . I honestly didn't recognize who that was on the baseball reference page when I saw his photo.  Sure there were some luminaries like Markakis, Jones, B-Rob but that was offset by Cesar Izturis and Aubrey Huff.  We gave 24 starts to Jason "Merkin" (look it up) Berken and Jeremy Guthrie was terrible.  But hey!!!  They won 64 games!!  

We survived all those teams, all those seasons.  Had a decent stretch in the 2010s (looking back on it, we probably weren't even that good, it's just that the Sox and Yanks weren't that great) and now we're doing things properly.  I've maintained for a long time on here that the worst part of the 1998-2011 stretch wasn't the losing but it was the notion that the Orioles constantly tried to sell us on the idea that THIS IS THE YEAR.  

At least they're being honest about it now.  I don't need Elias to spend a bunch of money this offseason in order to pacify the fanbase and make people think that it's money well spent.

I've also maintained on here that the REAL reason why people are upset here is that they know this team will lose plenty in 2020 but at least they want to lose by watching players they like.  For some reason it would be ok to watch this team win 55 games with Villar and Bundy but it's incomprehensible to watch them win 52 games without them.  

I don't get it, I really don't.  Angelos did a bang up job of decimating this franchise over the years, we've stuck through it thick and thin.  I mean, if you're posting on here, you're a diehard.  And even if you're NOT posting on here, even if you're lurking and just reading this, you didn't find this site by accident.  You're a diehard, too.

So hike up your skirts and put your $#*%kickers on, we're going for a walk.  It's not going to be easy but at least we know where we're going.

[Pickles]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think y'all are crazy, I'm having a blast with this rebuild. I sincerely mean that. The organization is so much more interesting than it's been since the three playoff runs. Check back with me in 3 years and if we're in the same spot I'll be venting. Until then, I'm eating all this up and having a good time seeing how it shakes out.

Here's how I feel about it, and it is largely how I felt about it in 2007 when MacPhail came on board and it was similar, if less streamlined:

It is interesting   But it is frustrating too.  Really frustrating.  Often embarrassing.  

And in 3 years, we probably won't be losing 110 games, but we likely won't be winning 90.  We will still be in the middle of it.

[interloper]

Just now, Pickles said:

Here's how I feel about it, and it is largely how I felt about it in 2007 when MacPhail came on board and it was similar, if less streamlined:

It is interesting   But it is frustrating too.  Really frustrating.  Often embarrassing.  

And in 3 years, we probably won't be losing 110 games, but we likely won't be winning 90.  We will still be in the middle of it.

Like @Moose Milligan just said, if you think this is embarrassing, you need to look at the early 2000s teams. Rudderless, devoid of intelligent team-building, constant Warehouse in-fighting, steroid rumors, poorly-spent money, horrible pitching, bad drafts, bad coaching. 

The new crew is being honest about it. There's no wool being pulled over anyone's eyes. It's transparent as much as it can be, and it's being done correctly, it would seem. 

The fact that MacPhail fixed as much as he did and things STILL weren't being run right should tell you a lot. Dan finally built a winner with some savvy moves and Buck and luck, but they overextended themselves and now you're seeing the result. Replace Elias with any other GM and they'd still be rebuilding. There was no way around it because they'd backed themselves into a corner. 

[Pickles]

Just now, interloper said:

Like @Moose Milligan just said, if you think this is embarrassing, you need to look at the early 2000s teams. Rudderless, devoid of intelligent team-building, constant Warehouse in-fighting, steroid rumors, poorly-spent money, horrible pitching, bad drafts, bad coaching. 

The new crew is being honest about it. There's no wool being pulled over anyone's eyes. It's transparent as much as it can be, and it's being done correctly, it would seem. 

The fact that MacPhail fixed as much as he did and things STILL weren't being run right should tell you a lot. Dan finally built a winner with some savvy moves and Buck and luck, but they overextended themselves and now you're seeing the result. Replace Elias with any other GM and they'd still be rebuilding. There was no way around it because they'd backed themselves into a corner. 

Hey man, I am not arguing any of that.

And I been around since the 80s baby.  The nadir to me wasn't the early 2000s.  That was shocking.  And abrupt.

The nadir to me was losing 30-3 to the Rangers in 2007.

And yeah, both were embarrassing.

And averaging 105 losses for 5 years is embarrsing.  And we're not even to the middle point of that yet.

And that isn't MacPhail's or Elias'or even Duquette's fault.  But it's happening.  And it sucks.

[sportsfan8703]

I still think the first part of the 2020 season will be rock bottom.  That's before Mountcastle comes up, and before we possibly see some of the pitching prospects start to get a look.  We could have a decent lineup, but our pitching staff will make things ugly.  Lots of 10+ runs given up games.  

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I also don't really get any of the incessant whining about this rebuild.  Most of us were around for 1998-2011.  This is practically nothing in comparison.

I mean, what would you want instead?  A team like the 2003 version?  Fat Ponson, Jay Gibbons?

What about the 2004 team?  That was the year we went all in, pushed our chips to the middle of the table and thought Miguel Tejada, Javy Lopez and Raffy 2.0 were going to transform this franchise and get us back to our winning ways.  But hey, they won 78 games!!!!   

 Would you prefer a squad like the 2009 team?  Brad Bergesen was our leader in WAR with 3.3 . I honestly didn't recognize who that was on the baseball reference page when I saw his photo.  Sure there were some luminaries like Markakis, Jones, B-Rob but that was offset by Cesar Izturis and Aubrey Huff.  We gave 24 starts to Jason "Merkin" (look it up) Berken and Jeremy Guthrie was terrible.  But hey!!!  They won 64 games!!  

We survived all those teams, all those seasons.  Had a decent stretch in the 2010s (looking back on it, we probably weren't even that good, it's just that the Sox and Yanks weren't that great) and now we're doing things properly.  I've maintained for a long time on here that the worst part of the 1998-2011 stretch wasn't the losing but it was the notion that the Orioles constantly tried to sell us on the idea that THIS IS THE YEAR.  

I have a soft spot for that 2009 team.    We saw the debuts of Wieters, Tillman, Matusz, Bergesen, Berken, D. Hernandez, Reimold, Uehara and J. Turner.     That was the year Adam started with the pies.     Yeah, the team stank, but I don’t think of the old vets on that team, I think of the young guys who were coming up.   Plus, Jones and Markakis.    Luke Scott was pretty entertaining too.

I actually think this year could be a bit like that, with Mountcastle, Akin, Kremer and Zimmermann all potentially debuting and a few others knocking on the door, plus getting a better look at Hays, Santander, Stewart and some others.