An argument to keep Patterson in 08

[Leitch]

Wouldn't it be more fair to take away his 41 bunt attempts instead of just the 21 hits? That would be more representative.

How? He's on pace to attempt a similar amount of bunts; he's only getting a hit when he bunts 27% of the time instead of 51% of the time last year.

[NoVaO]

I'm just going to assume you didn't mean 14 runs per game, because I just don't think that's possible in a 9 inning game, much less one being pitched by the Orioles staff.

Take away his 21 bunt hits last year and his line is .231/.266/.397. This year he's only got 6 bunt hits, and his line is eerily similar. Speed is a weapon of his to be sure, but the bunt hit has apparently been taken from him this year(6-22 bunting this year as opposed to 21-41 last year) and his production has suffered dramatically.

Come on now, what you're basically doing is taking 21 hits in 21 at bats away from him and replacing it with nothing.

He is having a very strange year. It goes far beyond just not getting bunt base hits.

With that said, I think he is better than his numbers show. He is ok to have if you have power from other positions. Basically, I wouldn't mind bringing him back. Lets just say he finishes the year with a .680 OPS...I just don't see him getting many offers. I wouldn't offer him a multi-year deal and I would be surprised to see him get one. Maybe a 1 year deal including some sort of option, but thats it. It would probably be in his best interest to sign a 1-year deal and attempt to build his stock up, especially if he is confident enough in himself to put up better numbers.

[Baltimoron]

CPat is on pace for 9 or so fewer bunt hits over the course of a full season, or about 5 fewer so far, which is about .02 on the batting average.

The bigger problem is he is hitting slightly more FBs than last year, yet his HR/FB is only 4.3. Last year it was 11.9 HR/FB and 11.6 HR/FB is the lowest he's ever had in a meaningful season of ML PAs.

He has 92 FBs and 4 HRs, if he was hitting with his traditional power he's have around 10, or 6 more Hrs, which is worth about .025 on the BA and about .1 on the slugging.

On the positive side of things CPat has cut his Ks this year (20% to 17%) and has 18 doubles already (he had 19 all of last year), so hopefully that indicates he still has some pop left and he is due for a few more HRs in the second half.

[Leitch]

Come on now, what you're basically doing is taking 21 hits in 21 at bats away from him and replacing it with nothing.

He is having a very strange year. It goes far beyond just not getting bunt base hits.

With that said, I think he is better than his numbers show. He is ok to have if you have power from other positions. Basically, I wouldn't mind bringing him back. Lets just say he finishes the year with a .680 OPS...I just don't see him getting many offers. I wouldn't offer him a multi-year deal and I would be surprised to see him get one. Maybe a 1 year deal including some sort of option, but thats it. It would probably be in his best interest to sign a 1-year deal and attempt to build his stock up, especially if he is confident enough in himself to put up better numbers.

Even adjusting it to be .273 when bunting instead of .512, it depletes his line pretty severely. The point is that his lines are very AVG driven and his AVG was propped up with infield hits and bunt hits last year. His power is down a bit this year too from last year, which might correct itself..

I just don't think he's a guy you can really afford to rely on for 400-500 PAs to unless the rest of the lineup is like, the 1999 Indians. Outfield defense is overrated on a team with a high-strikeout, high-groundball staff like the Orioles have.

If we were absolutely required to punt 3 outs a game on an all-glove, no hit player we'd be best served for it to be a middle infielder, not an outfielder.

[NoVaO]

He's on pace for 9 or so fewer bunt hits overe the course of a full season, or about 5 fewer so far, which is about .02 on the batting average.

The bigger problem is he is hitting slightly more FBs than last year, yet his HR/FB is only 4.3. Last year it was 11.9 HR/FB and 11.6 HR/FB is the lowest he's ever had in a meaningful season of ML PAs.

He has 92 FBs and 4 HRs, if he was hitting with his traditional power he's have around 10, or 6 more Hrs, which is worth about .025 on the BA and about .1 on the slugging.

On the positive side of things CPat has cut his Ks this year (20% to 17%) and has 18 doubles already (he had 19 all of last year), so hopefully that indicates he still has some pop left and he is due for a few more HRs in the second half.

Yes, that is basically what I was referring to in regards to his hitting problems this year.

I think its possible that as the coaching staff has helped in shorten his swing, he produces more contact but the extra power he generates through his longer swing has been sapped. Of course there are ways to have a shorter swing and generate power at the same time so hopefully he has put the two together.

[Canti]

How? He's on pace to attempt a similar amount of bunts; he's only getting a hit when he bunts 27% of the time instead of 51% of the time last year.

What he's on pace to do is besides the point, wasn't your point to highlight his performance from last year when you take bunting out of the equation? if thats the case you should take all his bunt attempts away.

[Leitch]

What he's on pace to do is besides the point, wasn't your point to highlight his performance from last year when you take bunting out of the equation? if thats the case you should take all his bunt attempts away.

Oh, ok, I see what you're saying. Good point.

His line looks like a less awful .254/.291/.416. taking away the bunts. Still, that is awful.

[NoVaO]

Even adjusting it to be .273 when bunting instead of .512, it depletes his line pretty severely. The point is that his lines are very AVG driven and his AVG was propped up with infield hits and bunt hits last year. His power is down a bit this year too from last year, which might correct itself..

I just don't think he's a guy you can really afford to rely on for 400-500 PAs to unless the rest of the lineup is like, the 1999 Indians. Outfield defense is overrated on a team with a high-strikeout, high-groundball staff like the Orioles have.

He goes to .254/.298/.415 or something like that. His power isn't just down a bit, it is down by close to 70 points, and only about 20 of those points are due to batting average.

His OBP is driven by his batting average, but his slugging % is not. His problem this year is mostly due to his diminished power, not his problems with getting bunt hits.

[Leitch]

He goes to .254/.298/.415 or something like that. His power isn't just down a bit, it is down by close to 70 points, and only about 20 of those points are due to batting average.

His OBP is driven by his batting average, but his slugging % is not. His problem this year is mostly due to his diminished power, not his problems with getting bunt hits.

A .298 OBP for an outfielder is awful, no?

[Boof]

I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Ramon go, and wait for Weiters. A stop gap at catcher certainly couldn't hurt, considering Ramon's quick decline.

I would argue, however, that due to our abundance of pitching, an injury to Zambrano, while definitely harmful, definitely would not cripple a rotation that deep.

I can't see Hernandez getting traded right now. He's too important to the starting rotation.

[NoVaO]

A .298 OBP for an outfielder is awful, no?

Its awful for any position. But his poor season can be attributed to his lack of power, not his lack of success in bunting.

Obviously I would like to upgrade the position, but if it ended up that we didn't upgrade or managed to get a future CF who isn't quite ready to play, then I don't have a problem resigning him for a year.

[Boof]

I would like to see Patterson back next year as a fourth outfielder but it's unlikely we will uprgade to that extent.

[biggrthngibbons]

I can't see Hernandez getting traded right now. He's too important to the starting rotation.

I am on the fence about trading Ramon. I think he would probably bring a reasonable return, and I think he can be pretty easily replaced. Hopefully the wait for Weiters won't be too long.