How does Elias maintain a Top 10 farm system without high draft choices

[Ripken]

Because you can only find good players in the first 10 picks?  Aren't people excited by the two kids we took 5th and 6th this year?  

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Because you can only find good players in the first 10 picks?  Aren't people excited by the two kids we took 5th and 6th this year?  

I'm more excited about the kid they took ninth overall....ooops, I mean second overall.

[HowAboutThat]

52 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

First, be good at drafting and developing talent. Our system has Rodriguez (11th overall), Hall (21st overall) and Mountcastle (36th). Baumann was a 3rd rounder. Akin was 54th overall. Hays was a 3rd rounder. You could argue this org has done a nice job lately. It would be nice to hit on a Jake Arrieta or two as well.

Second, acquire good talent in trades. We're hopeful on Kremer and Diaz. Others are farther away, but if we're selling, hopefully we find the right guys in return.

Third, acquire international talent. Several of the best players in the game were't even part of the draft. We're finally in that game. Who knows, maybe we already have a difference maker in this org who is just very young and under the radar. This is a stated goal of Elias, so hopefully he can do it.

Fourth, if we do contend, really try not to give up Hader, Davies and Rodriguez types unless you get true impact back. Knowing what you have in-house helps. When the time comes, I hope that Elias will be patient for a year or two and not blow his load during our first legit playoff run. It's very possible that promoting our own guys will work out much better than trading for other guys in the long run if we're as good at this drafting and developing guys as we hope.

 

 

I thought the Hader trade was fine. Keeping Norris too long was not.

The Parra trade isn’t the worst move DD made, But that is because there were so many equally bad ones.

The Miller trade was arguable. I would not have made it and I think I said so at the time( I must confess that I was a fan of the Feldman trade) but i understand why some people thought it was a fair price to pay. Those damn Royals, grrr.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

I thought the Hader trade was fine. Keeping Norris too long was not.

The Parra trade isn’t the worst move DD made, But that is because there were so many equally bad ones.

The Miller trade was arguable. I would not have made it and I think I said so at the time( I must confess that I was a fan of the Feldman trade) but i understand why some people thought it was a fair price to pay. Those damn Royals, grrr.

Giving up a first round pick ++ for Norris was terrible.  Two pitch nothing special guy who wasn't cheap.

[Ripken]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm more excited about the kid they took ninth overall....ooops, I mean second overall.

Good thing we weren't picking 9th then.  Amirite?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Good thing we weren't picking 9th then.  Amirite?

It's looking like we are going to pick later than ninth next year.  Probably too late to get cute.

[DrungoHazewood]

58 minutes ago, Philip said:

I think they should make it eight years from the time you’re signed, 9 years for HS kids, which would eliminate any service time BS.

This kind of thing should never happen:

Carlos Ruiz transactions

December 4, 1998: Signed by the Philadelphia Phillies as an amateur free agent.

October 31, 2013: Granted Free Agency.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

This kind of thing should never happen:

Carlos Ruiz transactions

December 4, 1998: Signed by the Philadelphia Phillies as an amateur free agent.

October 31, 2013: Granted Free Agency.

He could always quit.

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

He could always quit.

That was the stock answer to every player prior to 1975.  You're playing baseball for $16,000 a year, stop complaining you ingrate.  We only cut your pay $1000 a year for your batting average going down eight points.  You could go home and work at Daddy's bait shop if you don't like it.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think Dan was 100% on board with going for a ring every year he was here.  I think he wanted to win very badly after Boston.

It must be... different... to be in a position where you're expected to win no matter the circumstances and you know with almost complete certainty that you're going to be fired (or essentially fired when your contract runs out) at some point.

[Frobby]

First, having a top 10 farm system is not the goal.    Regularly supplying good talent to the major league team is the goal.    If we were to drop out of the top 10 because Mountcastle, Akin and Kremer had all graduated to the majors and were performing well, that wouldn’t worry me.    If those three graduated to the majors and were awful, now that would worry me.    

Second, regardless of whether you pick at the top of the draft or not, you have to (1) make good picks, and (2) develop the players well.    If you do that, the rankings will continue to be good and more importantly the pipeline will be good.  

I think it’s really hard to maintain an above average pipeline if you aren’t getting your share of the Latin American talent.    Elias and Perez are working on that.  Normally by now, we’d know what the J2 class of ‘20 looked like, and we’d have a completed DSL season on which to judge J2 ‘19.    It’s really anyone’s guess what we have there.    But I think by J2 ‘21 the team will no longer be at a competitive disadvantage and there won’t be any built in reason we can’t score a good class. 

Finally, as others mentioned, we need to be shrewd in trading established players for prospects at the right time and for good value.    

Honestly, the folks who write these offseason top 10 lists are just going to be making it up this Fall, without a minor league season to judge players on, no knowledge of what the J2 classes look like, and a minuscule sample of college and high school games on which to judge the 2020 draftees.     So I really don’t care where they rank us.   

[MCO'sFan]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

If the season ended today the O's would draft 14th.  Middle of the pack.   How does that keep Elias with a Top 10 farm system?

 

 

Did they settle on how to lay out the draft order? I thought that was still up in the air. I've heard a few different options such as combining this year's with last year's records or some type of winning percentage formula.

[HowAboutThat]

10 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

It must be... different... to be in a position where you're expected to win no matter the circumstances and you know with almost complete certainty that you're going to be fired (or essentially fired when your contract runs out) at some point.

Maybe, but when they’re playing you ~ a million dollars a year, it’s ok to have a short career..

[HowAboutThat]

20 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

This kind of thing should never happen:

Carlos Ruiz transactions

December 4, 1998: Signed by the Philadelphia Phillies as an amateur free agent.

October 31, 2013: Granted Free Agency.

I didn’t look at the transactions, but seeing a 15 -year minor league career makes me sad. 
if the clock starts when a player is signed, it will increase the urgency to bring a guy up. Who would we have here now, if we were playing under that time line. It would also increase the number of extensions, because some guys just need extra time to get ready, and the team doesn’t want to let him go.

[BohKnowsBmore]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

This kind of thing should never happen:

Carlos Ruiz transactions

December 4, 1998: Signed by the Philadelphia Phillies as an amateur free agent.

October 31, 2013: Granted Free Agency.

 

2 hours ago, Philip said:

I didn’t look at the transactions, but seeing a 15 -year minor league career makes me sad. 
if the clock starts when a player is signed, it will increase the urgency to bring a guy up. Who would we have here now, if we were playing under that time line. It would also increase the number of extensions, because some guys just need extra time to get ready, and the team doesn’t want to let him go.

Was not a 15 year MiLB career. Got a cup of coffee in 2006 and exceeded rookie limits in 2007. He didn't start play in the minors until 2000 in his age 21 season. Not sure of the exact math but he either used his maximum number of options or had to be exposed to the R5 at some point. 

System isn't perfect, but he wasn't a 15-year minor leaguer.