The offseason “elephant in the room”

[now]

40 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There's no elephant here.  It's almost guaranteed that Mancini's agent will work out something fairly reasonable with the team, and the team won't even think about non-tending him.  40 man is a non-issue, if you need a spot just cut one of the 17 random relief pitchers.

I think by "roster issue" he meant the 25-man and position / playing time, not the 40-man roster.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, now said:

I think by "roster issue" he meant the 25-man and position / playing time, not the 40-man roster.

If he can play he plays, if he can't he's on the IL.

I don't see why the game day roster would be an issue.

[weams]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he can play he plays, if he can't he's on the IL.

I don't see why the game day roster would be an issue.

I agree. He looked like a very fortunate man who had completed 6 months of chemo in no way in shape top play professional baseball. It think it is a real tough situation. I just hope he has no reoccurrences as it was stage three with lymph involvement. 

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Man, that’d be the ultimate dick move to non-tender Mancini after his cancer battle.  PR nightmare.  They can afford $5MM for Trey, payroll will be low enough as it is. 

The O's paid Tillman  $3 mill to pitch like someone who has no basis for being a major leaguer, surely Mancini can get a similar contract with much better recent results.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OriolesMagic83 said:

The O's paid Tillman  $3 mill to pitch like someone who has no basis for being a major leaguer, surely Mancini can get a similar contract with much better recent results.

Different management.

 

[jerios55]

I get that there is things this team is trying to do and that may not 100% fit with Mancini.

There are moves like Villar that aren't fun as a fan, but I totally understand the need for that type of move.

I don't with Mancini.  Based on cost it shouldn't be hard to keep him and play him a lot (if his body is ready for that).

Even if only for one more year, I want to root for this guy as an Oriole. 

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/i-am-so-lucky-trey-mancini-orioles-cancer

[Sports Guy]

22 minutes ago, interloper said:

I meant player options, the act of optioning a player.

Mancini will not block anyone at all. See the many posts in this thread. As far as I know we don't have a starting 1B. We have a injured/bench 1B who may be released and Nunez, who will be non-tendered or traded. 

It’s just not true that he won’t block anyone.  
 

Without knowing what they do, he is 100% blocking someone right now.  Even if you move a few players, he can still block someone, 

To me, this decision is a lot more complicated than people want to make it out to be.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The O's paid Tillman  $3 mill to pitch like someone who has no basis for being a major leaguer, surely Mancini can get a similar contract with much better recent results.

Apples and oranges though.

[Aristotelian]

 

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There's no elephant here.  It's almost guaranteed that Mancini's agent will work out something fairly reasonable with the team, and the team won't even think about non-tending him.  40 man is a non-issue, if you need a spot just cut one of the 17 random relief pitchers.

I hope that is the case. If his agent wanted to play hardball he could put the team in a pickle. 

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

What do you do with Mancini?

This is a pretty crucial decision.

Moves will obviously be made but there will still be plenty of roster questions.  
 

Will room be made for Diaz?  Will Mountcastle play first or LF?  How do you handle DH?  
 

Mancini is a factor in all of these decisions, not to mention do you want to pay him 5-8M next year coming off of him kicking cancers butt?  It’s a risk, for sure.

I don’t envy Elias here.  Obviously, you have to see where he is strength wise and stuff like that to really make this decision but once you have that confirmation, what do you do?  

Easy peasy. Bring him back, pay him his wage, which will be low, and throw him into the fray. In a very worst case scenario, you replace the unproductive Davis with the unproductive Mancini, and that is highly unlikely.

my fear is MC or Stewart regularly in the OF. Heaven forbid!

[HowAboutThat]

57 minutes ago, interloper said:

? Boot Chris Davis, trade or non-tender Nunez.

LF - Mountcastle
CF - Hays/Mullins
RF - Santander
DH - Stewart
1B - Mancini

Diaz gets some AAA at bats for a month or two, comes up and cycles into the outfield corners, while everyone cycles in and out of the DH spot. Option Stewart if you have to.

Not the best defensive OF. Mullins and Hays in C/LF or vice versa, MC/Trey at 1B/Dh, lose Nunez And figure something out with Stewart. If he hits we have to find a place that won’t cancel out his defense.

[Tony-OH]

I do think Mancini will be offered and will accept the same salary he was due to make this year before going to arbitration as long as the Orioles reasonably thinks Mancini will be play most of 2020. 

the good news here is the Orioles are not going to be contenders in 2021, so they can afford to run Mancini out there if he's healthy enough and able to play at that major league level once again.

As for at bats, that's where it gets tricky and I'm assuming Davis will not be on the team next year (retire/release/DL'd all year with pothole injuries). 

The Orioles will need to find just about every day at bats for: 

Mancini 1B/RF/DH
Nunez DH/1B
Mountcastle 1B/LF
Stewart DH/RF/LF
Hays CF/LF
Santander RF/LF

That's six guys for 5 positions/DH. Mullins is a 4th outfielder and will need some at bats as well.

That's not including Yusniel Diaz who should be in consideration for everyday at bats at some point in 2021. If you add him in that's seven guys for five positions plus a 4th/5th outfielder in Mullins.

One thing to remember here the defense improves if you go with a Diaz (LF), Hay (CF, Santander (RF) Lineup at some point, but that means Mountcastle/Mancini/Nunez has to share 1B unless you are willing to watch the disaster of nunez trying to play 3B again.

The Orioles need to find a decent defensive 3Bman of the future though Jordan Westburg could be that guy, he's at least 2-3 years away most likely. 

I'd try to move one of Stewart or Nunez for a 3B if possible, but few teams have extra 3Bman's laying around if they do, they aren't trading them for DH types like Nunez or Stewart unless they are significant upgrade to their DH position.

I'd also float trading Pedro Severino if he has gained any value from this year's offensive output if he could bring back a 3B. 

Either way, unless it's certain Mancini will not be back in 2021, I see the orioles agreeing to the same salary he woud make this year and hopefully he'll be back playing. If not, he'll be placed on the 60-day DL and the Orioles would be able to recoup some of his contract back with insurance if he can't play at the major league level again.

Knowing how hard a worker and his heart, I wouldn't bet against Mancini coming back and being the player he was.

 

[Sports Guy]

As of right now, these are your OF, 1st and DH options:

Davis, Mullins, Hays, Stewart, Nunez, Santander, Diaz, Mountcastle

Mullins is the only one on that list not effected by Mancini because he won’t play a CO spot.  However, they may be dumb enough to hand him CF and push Hays a corner spot, so he could effect things indirectly.

Davis is the easy move..if they actually do it.

Diaz likely won’t start in the majors but he could and should be ready within a month or so.

That still leaves you with a Hays/Mullins CF, Mountcastle in LF, Santander in RF, Mancini at first and Nunez/Stewart at DH.

I guess, for me, it comes down to a few things:

1) Diaz should get everyday at bats quickly and I think Elias and they organization agrees with that.

2) What position do you really want Mountcastle to play?

3) who else are you getting rid of, besides Davis?  
 

I get that everyone wants to drop Nunez but Nunez outhitting Trey isn’t that far fetched and he will make half the money, or thereabouts.

Im not saying there isn’t room...I guess what I’m asking if there is enough room and if the money is worth it for a guy who will enter next year a complete unknown?

I tend to side with those who keep him but I feel a lot better about keeping him if we move 2-3 guys in a smart way.

[Moose Milligan]

They gotta get rid of Davis first.  Everything really revolves around that, IMO.

I'm not worried about Mancini coming back.  A lot of athletes have come back from cancer to play at high levels, Eric Davis being one we're all really familiar with.  

Not worried about him "blocking" anyone, either.

[Moose Milligan]

Where's SG 1.0?  Not this watered down 2.0 version where he's afraid of stepping on toes and not saying what he really wants to mean.

C'mon, SG, let it rip!  You want to get rid of the cancer guy so Diaz can shine.