Yankees Need Catching Depth

[Tony-OH]

57 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

My guess in a few years, we will look back and this and say damn, if this is possible, we should have done it.

Lets not pretend that Adley has seen a ton of pro pitching and it’s not like he has done well when he has.  He’ll be fine but still.  
 

If my scouts trusted that he was that good, I would rather Dominguez, who you can probably get 10+ years out of as opposed to hoping for 5-7 years from Adley.

I understand that line of thinking, but if you only think you are going to get 5-7 good years from Adley then you probably should not have drafted him #1 overall. As for Dominguez, he's nothing more than a talented 18-year old high school level prospect who has played against sub par competition. From what I've read about him, he has above average tools but at 5-10, he doesn't have a ton of room to grow and I would prefer my young players to have a projectable body, particularly if they don't have 70-80 projected tools. 

[Sports Guy]

54 minutes ago, LTO's said:

 

How hasn't he? He had a .775 OPS the year he was drafted and recovered from mono. You could argue that he faced better competition in Aberdeen than in Delmarva and he had a .900 OPS there. Either way the sample size isn't very big so you can't say one way or the other. He also, as recognized by every scouting pub, dominated the alternative site and showed very well in the instructional league.  Here's his blurb in BA provided by other team's scouts and FO personnel. 

"Rutschman refined his swing at the alternate site over the summer and showed off the finished product in instructs. He showed the ability to hit for power, hit for average and played at least above-average defense behind the plate. Beyond his tools, Rutschman’s polish stood out prominently—evaluators opined he was not only ready for the major leagues, but that he would be one of MLB’s best catchers immediately."

I don’t think you can make a good argument that he faces better competition in Aberdeen.

On top of that, if mono was an issue, why didn’t it effect him from the beginning?  I have never really fully bought into that.

His struggling means nothing but you are making an argument that makes it sound like he has faced a lot of pro pitching and that he was very good doing so.  Neither of those points are true.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I understand that line of thinking, but if you only think you are going to get 5-7 good years from Adley then you probably should not have drafted him #1 overall. As for Dominguez, he's nothing more than a talented 18-year old high school level prospect who has played against sub par competition. From what I've read about him, he has above average tools but at 5-10, he doesn't have a ton of room to grow and I would prefer my young players to have a projectable body, particularly if they don't have 70-80 projected tools. 

Well I actually would have preferred they take Witt personally.  
 

I think Adley has big time upside.  Love everything I hear about him but I don’t love the position he plays and the wear and tear it places on him.

[Tony-OH]

57 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think if the Yanks had Adley and we had Dominguez, that most people wouldn’t want us to trade Dominguez for Adley.

I don't think this is a Orange colored glasses thing at all. This has to do with how much risk do you want to take. Rutschman is a top 2 prospect in all of baseball for a reason. I think some of you have gotten down on him because of his first pro year where he didn't put up eye popping stats and his spring this year.

He has the potential to be the best all around catcher in baseball. I honestly wouldn't trade that away unless I could trade him for a four or five tool shortstop with equal amount of potential. 

I'm certainly not trading him for a lottery ticket. Dominguez could end up a better player at the major league level but so could many, many other players in minor league systems. But, when you are the Orioles, and need to start winning sooner than later, I'm riding into town with Adley rather than an 18-year old 5-foot-10 lottery ticket.

[interloper]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'd give them either for Andujar.

All day.

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Well I actually would have preferred they take Witt personally.  
 

I think Adley has big time upside.  Love everything I hear about him but I don’t love the position he plays and the wear and tear it places on him.

Yeah, I remember you saying that, but I don't think it was really that close. I'm not sure Witt will ever have the hit tool to make up for his draft selection.

As for the position, all catchers have wear and tear, but you can't avoid taking them. Hopefully Adley is one that will last productively defensively behind the plate into his early 30s at least. Then hopefully the bat is good enough still to move to 1st base.  Of course that's assuming he's an Oriole at that point.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

I don't think this is a Orange colored glasses thing at all. This has to do with how much risk do you want to take. Rutschman is a top 2 prospect in all of baseball for a reason. I think some of you have gotten down on him because of his first pro year where he didn't put up eye popping stats and his spring this year.

He has the potential to be the best all around catcher in baseball. I honestly wouldn't trade that away unless I could trade him for a four or five tool shortstop with equal amount of potential. 

I'm certainly not trading him for a lottery ticket. Dominguez could end up a better player at the major league level but so could many, many other players in minor league systems. But, when you are the Orioles, and need to start winning sooner than later, I'm riding into town with Adley rather than an 18-year old 5-foot-10 lottery ticket.

He’s the #2 prospect because of hype, being the #1 pick and college performance.  
 

Nothing he has done on the field, as of yet, says he’s a better prospect than some of the guys behind him that have already produced at higher levels.

Putting that aside, it’s the catching thing that bothers me.  I think it’s the most overrated position on the Diamond and it wears you down a lot more.  That’s what bothers me.

There are several position players I would trade him for.  Dominguez is an example but again, my scouts would have to be all in on Dominguez.  
 

I would bet the Yankees don’t trade him for Adley.

To be honest, my biggest reservation on Dominguez is the Yankee hype.  

[Moose Milligan]

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right because the data from three years of major conference ball means as little as Jasson's home to first time.

Good post, I agree.

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think you can make a good argument that he faces better competition in Aberdeen.

On top of that, if mono was an issue, why didn’t it effect him from the beginning?  I have never really fully bought into that.

His struggling means nothing but you are making an argument that makes it sound like he has faced a lot of pro pitching and that he was very good doing so.  Neither of those points are true.

Recovery from mono takes a bit and he started to killing it at Aberdeen once he was healthy. As for his "struggles" at Delmarva, I'd say that's more of an adjustment phase and of course as you know, small sample size.

Small sample size this spring, but he does have a .455 OBP and has flied out to the warning track on several of "outs". 

I have almost no concern that Rutschman will do well in the majors at some point soon.

 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Yeah, I remember you saying that, but I don't think it was really that close. I'm not sure Witt will ever have the hit tool to make up for his draft selection.

As for the position, all catchers have wear and tear, but you can't avoid taking them. Hopefully Adley is one that will last productively defensively behind the plate into his early 30s at least. Then hopefully the bat is good enough still to move to 1st base.  Of course that's assuming he's an Oriole at that point.

Witt was the bigger risk for sure.

I really went back and forth on that selection to be honest.  On one hand(just like Kjerstad), I like taking guys who should be “sure things” at the top of the draft.  I feel you have to hit on those picks.

OToH, Witt has the higher ceiling and could likely be an impact player longer than Adley.

It was one of those things where if you ask me on Wednesday, I say take Adley but if it was Thursday, I would say Witt.

Terrible position to take though.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Recovery from mono takes a bit and he started to killing it at Aberdeen once he was healthy. As for his "struggles" at Delmarva, I'd say that's more of an adjustment phase and of course as you know, small sample size.

Small sample size this spring, but he does have a .455 OBP and has flied out to the warning track on several of "outs". 

I have almost no concern that Rutschman will do well in the majors at some point soon.

 

I don’t have concern either.  I’m even advocating to signing him to a contract soon.

I just don’t like the argument that says player X hasn’t seen pro pitching but wow, look at what Adley has done!

[Moose Milligan]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Fair enough, but I don't think you are putting enough into the equation of Rutschman having extreme success in major Div-I baseball and the rave reviews he's gotten from people who have seen him work out and play so far. 

There are lots of "specimens" out there that never did anything and it's not like he's 6-2 or 6-3. I hear above average tools, not 70-80 tools, which is what I would want to even consider moving Rutschman for anyone. 

I totally get where AR is where he is.  But quite frankly, I'd expect rave reviews from people watching a top flight D-1 player work out.  He should be a workout beast.  

I'm with SG on this one, it's the fact that he's a catcher that bothers me.  It's the wear and tear and the fact that if he hits like a monster, we'll probably want to move him first base after a few years.  It's a fast track to a skill set that doesn't age well.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

 

I just don’t like the argument that says player X hasn’t seen pro pitching but wow, look at what Adley has done!

Yes, this sums it up well, too.  

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I totally get where AR is where he is.  But quite frankly, I'd expect rave reviews from people watching a top flight D-1 player work out.  He should be a workout beast.  

I'm with SG on this one, it's the fact that he's a catcher that bothers me.  It's the wear and tear and the fact that if he hits like a monster, we'll probably want to move him first base after a few years.  It's a fast track to a skill set that doesn't age well.

Wait, where did you hear he was not a "workout beast?" Everything I've heard about him before he was drafted and since he was drafted is that he's everything that was advertised.

I get the reluctance at the catching position, and after Wieters, I can understand some Orioles fans having more concerns, but the one thing people need to remember with Wietes is that he basically settled into the player Joe Jordan thought he was, and that was Jason Varitek. 

Had there been a minor league season last year, I'm betting this would not even be a conversation. I'm betting the conversation would have been when he should be promoted this year based on controllability. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Wait, where did you hear he was not a "workout beast?" Everything I've heard about him before he was drafted and since he was drafted is that he's everything that was advertised.

I get the reluctance at the catching position, and after Wieters, I can understand some Orioles fans having more concerns, but the one thing people need to remember with Wietes is that he basically settled into the player Joe Jordan thought he was, and that was Jason Varitek. 

Had there been a minor league season last year, I'm betting this would not even be a conversation. I'm betting the conversation would have been when he should be promoted this year based on controllability. 

I've never heard that he's NOT a workout beast.  I'm saying, if you play that well in college at a big time D1 program and are selected that high in the draft, he should be able to be a workout beast and he should hit at the lower levels.  IMO, that's what's expected.

You are probably correct though, had there been a season last year for him we might not be having this conversation...or maybe we would be, who knows.  I am hoping that the lack of a season doesn't hurt his development but no one will ever to be able to tell.