Why "No DH" Sucks (last night)

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't think they get more often per se, but I bet the 8th hitter walk rate is higher than the 7th or 6th hitters. 

It is.    

[Tony-OH]

15 hours ago, Frobby said:

It is.    

So I took a look at the numbers from 2019.

NL 8th batters:
1. Walk rate was higher than 5th, 6th, 7th hitters. 
2. Were Intentionally walked 162 times, more than the 1st,2nd,5th,6th, and 7th batters combined despite having 290 less PAs than 7th batter, 586 less PAs than the 6th, and it just keep going up)
3. Their HBP rate is higher than every other hitter before them (maybe not significantly for some, but still higher)

AL 8th batters:
1. Walk rate is lower than other positions ahead of them or basically the same.
2. Were intentionally walked just 20 times.
3. Their HBP rate is higher than the others hitting positions but not statistically significantly.

I think it's pretty clear NL pitchers pitch around the 8th batter often, and I'm betting in leverage situations it's significant.

Not saying the strategy is wrong, just saying that it's one of the things I don't like about non DH baseball.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

So I took a look at the numbers from 2019.

NL 8th batters:
1. Walk rate was higher than 5th, 6th, 7th hitters. 
2. Were Intentionally walked 162 times, more than the 1st,2nd,5th,6th, and 7th batters combined despite having 290 less PAs than 7th batter, 586 less PAs than the 6th, and it just keep going up)
3. Their HBP rate is higher than every other hitter before them (maybe not significantly for some, but still higher)

AL 8th batters:
1. Walk rate is lower than other positions ahead of them or basically the same.
2. Were intentionally walked just 20 times.
3. Their HBP rate is higher than the others hitting positions but not statistically significantly.

I think it's pretty clear NL pitchers pitch around the 8th batter often, and I'm betting in leverage situations it's significant.

Not saying the strategy is wrong, just saying that it's one of the things I don't like about non DH baseball.

I don’t think there was ever any question that with 2 outs and runners on, NL pitchers pitch around/intentionally walk the 8th hitter quite often.   And I agree, it’s really boring to watch.   I’ll admit, it’s fun when the pitcher gets a hit and thwarts that strategy.   But that doesn’t happen often.   

The only real question in my mind is the HBP thing, and particularly, whether pitchers ever intentionally plunk the no. 8 hitter to get to the pitcher.    As I said above, I doubt that happens, but let’s just say that in the situations where there are two outs, a runner on and the 8th hitter at the plate, a pitcher will be less worried about pitching inside and hitting a batter than they otherwise would be.   So I’d call it one step shy of intentional plunking.   
 

[interloper]

The NL is bad and it should feel bad.