Josh Rogers Another Great Start

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, jabba72 said:

I agree with this. Yaz will be 31 next year. His age is getting dangerously close to the end of his everyday career. He does have hall of fame bloodlines though, so you never know how long his career will last. 

His grandpa retired at 43 and had some pretty damned good seasons in his mid to late 30’s.   Of course, he also won a batting title at 23, the age at which Mike reached AA for the first time.   

[HowAboutThat]

47 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If this is true, this is dumb.  I can't imagine anyone who'd be this dumb.

It’s not amazing how often people in positions of power have blind spots. It is amazing how often they refuse to admit that they have blind spots.

Arrogance is almost the worst of the human flaws, Because it makes it impossible to admit any kind of mistakes and therefore it is impossible to improve.

So, yes, it is easy to imagine someone in a position of power doing dumb things.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

 

Arrogance is almost the worst of the human flaws, Because it makes it impossible to admit any kind of mistakes and therefore it is impossible to improve.

 

Interesting.

So tell us how you feel about Hyde.  

[7Mo]

5 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

 

Let's just say I am highly suspect of the Sig's system to evaluate pitchers and the Orioles ability to develop pitching.

Thanks for the detail in your post. Very helpful information.

Do you have a feeling, one way or the other, about whether these 2 things, Sig's system and the O's development style, are things that are reviewed year to year to adjust and correct or are they things where the organization is set in stone and convinced this is THE way?

[Tony-OH]

Just now, 7Mo said:

Thanks for the detail in your post. Very helpful information.

Do you have a feeling, one way or the other, about whether these 2 things, Sig's system and the O's development style, are things that are reviewed year to year to adjust and correct or are they things where the organization is set in stone and convinced this is THE way?

I think we need more data before making a judgement. We have to see if any of the Peek, Brnovich, Stallings kinds of guys take a step forward or if they can take an arm like Greene and Burdi and have them focus on their best two offerings and make them a decent consistent bullpen option? 

I get a feeling that the org tries to take guys that may not have the kind of stuff and shoe horn them into their pitching style. Hanifee and Baumann may be two examples but I want to get another year of data under the belt before being too critical.

I do like what I've seen for the most part from the hitting side of development.

[7Mo]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think we need more data before making a judgement. We have to see if any of the Peek, Brnovich, Stallings kinds of guys take a step forward or if they can take an arm like Greene and Burdi and have them focus on their best two offerings and make them a decent consistent bullpen option? 

I get a feeling that the org tries to take guys that may not have the kind of stuff and shoe horn them into their pitching style. Hanifee and Baumann may be two examples but I want to get another year of data under the belt before being too critical.

I do like what I've seen for the most part from the hitting side of development.

Thanks. I appreciate the comments.

[Ripken]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I do like what I've seen for the most part from the hitting side of development.

They have [a lot] more talent to work with there.   

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I think we need more data before making a judgement. We have to see if any of the Peek, Brnovich, Stallings kinds of guys take a step forward or if they can take an arm like Greene and Burdi and have them focus on their best two offerings and make them a decent consistent bullpen option? 

I get a feeling that the org tries to take guys that may not have the kind of stuff and shoe horn them into their pitching style. Hanifee and Baumann may be two examples but I want to get another year of data under the belt before being too critical.

I do like what I've seen for the most part from the hitting side of development.

I agree with you here Tony.  If you were to ask me about my biggest disappointment and concern from 2021, it’s that our pitching development suddenly doesn’t look very good.   And I wouldn’t have said that at the end of 2019 or 2020, when there were a lot of positive stories.   Add in the fact that we’ve drafted virtually no pitchers in the high rounds of the draft for three years in a row, and that we have almost no good veteran pitchers, and it just looks like a hot mess.   

[Legend_Of_Joey]

52 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with you here Tony.  If you were to ask me about my biggest disappointment and concern from 2021, it’s that our pitching development suddenly doesn’t look very good.   And I wouldn’t have said that at the end of 2019 or 2020, when there were a lot of positive stories.   Add in the fact that we’ve drafted virtually no pitchers in the high rounds of the draft for three years in a row, and that we have almost no good veteran pitchers, and it just looks like a hot mess.   

“Grow the bats, trade for arms?”

[HowAboutThat]

6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Interesting.

So tell us how you feel about Hyde.  

Haven’t I made that clear? That subject isn’t related to this one, regardless.

[wildcard]

I thought the OH  was big on pitchers throwing strike outs.  Rogers hasn't been a strikeout pitcher in the past and  is not one now.  In his last four starts the has faced the Mets, Pirates, and the Marlins twice.  Not exactly like facing Tampa, Boston, Yankees and Jays which is what he would be doing if he was with the O's.

[CarrRun49]

If anything, I like Josh more after seeing this...

 

[Tony-OH]

10 hours ago, wildcard said:

I thought the OH  was big on pitchers throwing strike outs.  Rogers hasn't been a strikeout pitcher in the past and  is not one now.  In his last four starts the has faced the Mets, Pirates, and the Marlins twice.  Not exactly like facing Tampa, Boston, Yankees and Jays which is what he would be doing if he was with the O's.

The quality of opponents is certainly something to consider. However, as I showed in my earlier post, the changeup especially looks better than Wells and Lowther and overall his stuff is pretty comparable though I like Lowther's stuff better overall. 

I'm not convinced Rogers is going to have long term success, but I could see him be a Wade LeBlanc-type who can be used in several roles, but is more suited for long relief.

[HowAboutThat]

Isn’t this old news? Good or bad, he’s gone. We need to learn from the experience, if there’s any significant lessons to be learned at all. Is Mike bad at evaluating pitching? Is whoever in charge of evaluating pitching bad at it?

Mike is not drafting Pitching, and he’s not acquiring any good pitching, except the occasional waiver pick up who turns out not to be immediately horrible. The free agent acquisitions have been bad, but they were cheap, so it’s OK.

Rather than whine about Rogers being good, it will be more productive to consider whether he is good at all, and if so, what lessons do we need to learn so as not to let another one get away.

It should be obvious that one marginal guy doesn’t matter. Zack Pop doesn’t matter, Rogers doesn’t matter. 
What matters is the logic behind the decision. If that logic is flawed, that matters, and it matters a lot. And the character of the person making the decision matters a lot too. Is he willing to acknowledge mistakes and learn from them? That we don’t know and possibly never will, But the very process of acquiring a position like this requires a supreme confidence that easily breeds the arrogance That makes meaningful learning impossible.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Philip
Addendum

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:28 AM, wildcard said:

I thought the OH  was big on pitchers throwing strike outs.  Rogers hasn't been a strikeout pitcher in the past and  is not one now.  In his last four starts the has faced the Mets, Pirates, and the Marlins twice.  Not exactly like facing Tampa, Boston, Yankees and Jays which is what he would be doing if he was with the O's.

He’s shutting out the Red Sox tonight.