What’s your 2022 OPS projection for Austin Hays?

[Pickles]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

Hypothetical: if both Hays and Santander have good first halves, would you trade both of them or is that too big of a depth hit at once? Let's say Mullins is playing well and Stowers looks ready for his shot. You'd still need to fill LF with somebody less than ideal, options being McKenna, Stewart, Neustrom if he's still in the org, Nevin, or somebody like Jones or Mateo. 

We don't have to trade either of them.

This idea- and I'm not accusing you of endorsing it- that we're just waiting for our guys to play well so we can trade them is absurd to me.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

Hypothetical: if both Hays and Santander have good first halves, would you trade both of them or is that too big of a depth hit at once? Let's say Mullins is playing well and Stowers looks ready for his shot. You'd still need to fill LF with somebody less than ideal, options being McKenna, Stewart, Neustrom if he's still in the org, Nevin, or somebody like Jones or Mateo. 

Are they still in the talent acquisition phase?

If you don't think Hays or Santander are pieces you want to keep long term of course you trade them.  Who cares if you have a less than ideal option getting at bats in the outfield if you aren't trying to be competitive?

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

We don't have to trade either of them.

This idea- and I'm not accusing you of endorsing it- that we're just waiting for our guys to play well so we can trade them is absurd to me.

Sure, I just have my doubts that a) Hays stays healthy enough and b) that Santander is a true piece. Are they our guys, or should we try to get some pitching for them ahead of guys like Cowser, Stowers, and Kjerstad coming up? I don't know! Just a hypothetical. 

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are they still in the talent acquisition phase?

If you don't think Hays or Santander are pieces you want to keep long term of course you trade them.  Who cares if you have a less than ideal option getting at bats in the outfield if you aren't trying to be competitive?

Right. If I had to guess, we are maybe one foot in and one foot out of the young talent acquisition phase. Certainly you move Santander for a young piece if possible. Hays is less of a sure thing. Sooner or later, Elias will have to trade for a SP. Not sure Hays gets you that without a package of prospects, but yeah. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

We don't have to trade either of them.

This idea- and I'm not accusing you of endorsing it- that we're just waiting for our guys to play well so we can trade them is absurd to me.

Yea.  At some point you have to keep guys.

That being said, you also have to question what the futures of each individual player is.

I am on the trade Mullins bandwagon partly because I don’t think he will be as good moving forward, partly because I worry about his CF defense in 2-4 years and because he starts getting expensive when the team plans to contend and while the money isn’t a big deal, you question whether he will be worth 10-15M as he approaches 30.  
 

If the Os were trying to win right now, maybe that would be different but they aren’t, so go get a good deal for him now.  If one isn’t there and everyone is skeptical, you keep him.  If We can get Meyer and Lopez for him, you have to pull the trigger.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Yea.  At some point you have to keep guys.

That being said, you also have to question what the futures of each individual player is.

I am on the trade Mullins bandwagon partly because I don’t think he will be as good moving forward, partly because I worry about his CF defense in 2-4 years and because he starts getting expensive when the team plans to contend and while the money isn’t a big deal, you question whether he will be worth 10-15M as he approaches 30.  
 

If the Os were trying to win right now, maybe that would be different but they aren’t, so go get a good deal for him now.  If one isn’t there and everyone is skeptical, you keep him.  If We can get Meyer and Lopez for him, you have to pull the trigger.

It always comes down to individual cases. 

I in fact floated trading Santander in his projection thread.

However, I expect us to start getting better right now and going forward.

It will be hard to do that if the mentality is that as soon as a guy establishes himself and plays well, we're looking to "optimize" their value and trade them, even with multiple years remaining of team control.

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

Sure, I just have my doubts that a) Hays stays healthy enough and b) that Santander is a true piece. Are they our guys, or should we try to get some pitching for them ahead of guys like Cowser, Stowers, and Kjerstad coming up? I don't know! Just a hypothetical. 

 

There's nothing wrong with it as a hypothetical.  And I agree with you largely regarding their value/issues.

But Hays hasn't even reached arb yet.  If he has a good first half, I'm hoping he builds on that.  Not looking to get rid of him.

Santander is probably in a different boat.  But even he has years of team control remaining.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

It always comes down to individual cases. 

I in fact floated trading Santander in his projection thread.

However, I expect us to start getting better right now and going forward.

It will be hard to do that if the mentality is that as soon as a guy establishes himself and plays well, we're looking to "optimize" their value and trade them, even with multiple years remaining of team control.

I don’t disagree with you but the names being mentioned here certainly have their issues, so I think while you are correct, looking at it case by case is the prudent thing to do.

[wildcard]

Hays has the speed to play LF and back up center.   And when he is healthy he probably hits well.   Hard to say that about any other O's outfield in the majors but Mullins.   

He is not someone the O's trade in 2022 because he is cheap.   Hard to pin down his OPS because he is injury prone and Stowers is probably ready by June.  

I think the O's try to win as many as they can this season which might be more then people think if they follow the Tampa model with the pitching. So I don't see the O's trading Hays.

[NCRaven]

I'm waiting for a Mayo-Cowser-Kjerstad outfield with Druw Jones playing centerfield for AAA just waiting for his chance to become part of the next Orioles dynasty.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I'm waiting for a Mayo-Cowser-Kjerstad outfield with Druw Jones playing centerfield for AAA just waiting for his chance to become part of the next Orioles dynasty.

 

I thought Jones was a shortstop?  

[NCRaven]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I thought Jones was a shortstop?  

Maybe in HS, but probably not in the majors, according to reports I've seen.  But, if it comes to that, Cowser can stay in center with an infield of Mountcastle - Norby - Jones (Druw not Jahmai  ) - and Henderson.  Westburg, Vavra and Prieto make pretty good utility infield prospects with Stowers as a 4th outfielder.  And, let's not forget Rutschman.   A man can dream.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Maybe in HS, but probably not in the majors, according to reports I've seen.  But, if it comes to that, Cowser can stay in center with an infield of Mountcastle - Norby - Jones (Druw not Jahmai  ) - and Henderson.  Westburg, Vavra and Prieto make pretty good utility infield prospects with Stowers as a 4th outfielder.  And, let's not forget Rutschman.   A man can dream.

What reports have you seen on Druw Jones playing SS?  Would love to read them.

[NCRaven]

My post has him in centerfield.  Corn mentioned that he's been a SS in high school.

Latest Perfect Game Showcase Report:

2021 NATIONAL SHOWCASE  

Andruw Jones is a 2022 OF/RHP, MIF with a 6-3 180 lb. frame from Suwanee, GA who attends Wesleyan. Long and lean athletic build, strong but still very projectable. 6.31 runner in the sixty. Has outstanding defensive actions in the outfield, glides to the ball with advanced footwork and athleticism, plenty of arm strength with on line carry and plus accuracy, pure centerfield tools. Also took drills in the infield and looked comfortable and athletic there as well. Right handed hitter, easy low tension swing with plus bat speed and plenty of impact at contact, polished hitter who can drive the ball to all fields, projects as a hitter as he gets stronger, especially in his lower half. Good student, verbal commitment to Vanderbilt. Named to play in the Perfect Game All-American Classic.

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

My post has him in centerfield.  Corn mentioned that he's been a SS in high school.

Latest Perfect Game Showcase Report:

2021 NATIONAL SHOWCASE  

Andruw Jones is a 2022 OF/RHP, MIF with a 6-3 180 lb. frame from Suwanee, GA who attends Wesleyan. Long and lean athletic build, strong but still very projectable. 6.31 runner in the sixty. Has outstanding defensive actions in the outfield, glides to the ball with advanced footwork and athleticism, plenty of arm strength with on line carry and plus accuracy, pure centerfield tools. Also took drills in the infield and looked comfortable and athletic there as well. Right handed hitter, easy low tension swing with plus bat speed and plenty of impact at contact, polished hitter who can drive the ball to all fields, projects as a hitter as he gets stronger, especially in his lower half. Good student, verbal commitment to Vanderbilt. Named to play in the Perfect Game All-American Classic.

I know all that but you said you had read about him at SS.   That is what I am interested in.   Callis said he can be a plus SS if given the chance.   IMO if the O's draft him and he can be a plus SS defensively and hit well the O's don't have one of those.  They have an All-Star in CF and a #1 draft choice who is a CF just taken in the draft.     If Elias can find a plus defensive SS who can hit he will fly through he minors in two years and be the O's starting SS in 2024.  As you said "A man can dream."

[NCRaven]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I know all that but you said you had read about him a SS.   That is what I am interested in.   Callis said he can be a plus SS if given the chance.   IMO if the O's draft him and he can be a plus SS defensively and hit well the O's don't have one of those.  They have an All-Star in CF and a #1 draft choice who is a CF just taken in the draft.     If Elias can find a plus defensive SS who can hit he will fly through he minors in two years and be the O's starting SS in 2024.  As you said "A man can dream."

A slight miss understanding, I think.  I responded to Can's comment about him playing SS by saying "maybe in high school, but probably not in the majors according to the reports I've seen."  By that I meant that the reports that I'd seen project him as a centerfielder.  Not that they criticized his play at short.