Elias prioritizes player development over winning in the majors

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

They can and will do whatever they want. This year they will draw less than 10,000 per game and wonder why. 
and lose 100 games again

I don't think they will wonder why.  I think they know why and don't care, since the money saved on payroll far outweighs the revenue higher attendance would generate.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The organizational leaders like Elias, Sig, Blood, minor league manager, scouts? 

Not sure what you are going for here.

None of the pitchers returned to the minors have shown an ability to hold stuff into 100 pitches because they weren't allowed to go over 80 last year. 

Bradish is the only one with AAA experience and yes, I could certainly build an argument for him to be there on opening day, but I also think he's going to spend most of 2022 with the Orioles anyways so it really doesn't matter.

What I’m saying is that is really subjective.  There is no right or wrong on ready or not.  

And can they get ready up here vs the minors?  What stops that from happening?

Again, if the goal is to win in 2023, it means a lot of these guys need significant experience up here now.  

We can’t keep saying, we want to win and the prospects are the key but then not give them a chance because they aren’t perfect or because “it’s the right time”.

Bradish is a good example. He had a terrible outing on Aug 22 last year outside of that, his last 10 or so starts were very solid. What is he going to learn in AAA for a month or 2 that changes who he is as a pitcher?  and what about those changes couldn’t have been made up here?

I mean, I agree he’s going to get his chance and he likely gets it by Mid May but I don’t see the argument that he goes to AAA and fixes his issues in a short period of time.  He’s 25 years old.  He has 40 starts in the minors over 3 levels and has held his own at the upper levels.  

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What I’m saying is that is really subjective.  There is no right or wrong on ready or not.  

And can they get ready up here vs the minors?  What stops that from happening?

Again, if the goal is to win in 2023, it means a lot of these guys need significant experience up here now.  

We can’t keep saying, we want to win and the prospects are the key but then not give them a chance because they aren’t perfect or because “it’s the right time”.

Bradish is a good example. He had a terrible outing on Aug 22 last year outside of that, his last 10 or so starts were very solid. What is he going to learn in AAA for a month or 2 that changes who he is as a pitcher?  and what about those changes couldn’t have been made up here?

I mean, I agree he’s going to get his chance and he likely gets it by Mid May but I don’t see the argument that he goes to AAA and fixes his issues in a short period of time.  He’s 25 years old.  He has 40 starts in the minors over 3 levels and has held his own at the upper levels.  

Who said the goal was to win in 2023?

That's your arbitrary timeline.

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think they will wonder why.  I think they know why and don't care, since the money saved on payroll far outweighs the revenue higher attendance would generate.

Unless they will be forced to sell upon Peters passing.

im hoping for new ownership!

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Who said the goal was to win in 2023?

That's your arbitrary timeline.

Well, I was talking to Tony and that’s his timeline. 
 

Seeing as I wasn’t talking to you and was talking to someone who has that timeline, perhaps you could not be the troll and butt in on conversations that no one wants to or is having with you. 

Don’t worry, I know you are just a sheep and will be fine with whatever the Os do forever.  We know you don’t really have any original thought.

 

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What I’m saying is that is really subjective.  There is no right or wrong on ready or not.  

And can they get ready up here vs the minors?  What stops that from happening?

Again, if the goal is to win in 2023, it means a lot of these guys need significant experience up here now.  

We can’t keep saying, we want to win and the prospects are the key but then not give them a chance because they aren’t perfect or because “it’s the right time”.

Bradish is a good example. He had a terrible outing on Aug 22 last year outside of that, his last 10 or so starts were very solid. What is he going to learn in AAA for a month or 2 that changes who he is as a pitcher?  and what about those changes couldn’t have been made up here?

I mean, I agree he’s going to get his chance and he likely gets it by Mid May but I don’t see the argument that he goes to AAA and fixes his issues in a short period of time.  He’s 25 years old.  He has 40 starts in the minors over 3 levels and has held his own at the upper levels.  

We are not talking about prospect vs non-prospect. We are talking about Bradish vs other prospects also competing for the spot. Lowther, Zimmerman, Baumann, Tyler Wells, and Akin are the other rotation candidates. (Plus we all want to see Grayson and Hall). Yes, Bradish is 25 but the others on that list are 26 or 27.

Maybe it is about giving Akin and Lowther a longer chance to prove themselves rather than getting yanked around. Or maybe they are getting one last chance before Elias gets rid of them. 

Service time is one explanation but there are others. I don't pretend to know what is in Elias's mind although you may be right. 

[Pickles]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, I was talking to Tony and that’s his timeline. 
 

Seeing as I wasn’t talking to you and was talking to someone who has that timeline, perhaps you could not be the troll and butt in on conversations that no one wants to or is having with you. 

Don’t worry, I know you are just a sheep and will be fine with whatever the Os do forever.  We know you don’t really have any original thought.

 

Dude, you run your mouth constantly and people are going to respond.  Deal with it.  Don't want people to respond to you?

STFU.  For once in your life.  Or deal with the fact this is a public forum and you'll get public responses.

"Sheep."  "Troll."

I'll counter with "Pedantic, repetitive, weak bully."  Who would never in a million years talk to people in person like you do on the internet.

Now to the point I was making is that your expectations are based solely on parameters that you yourself have set.  That is largely the source of your frustration.  You have put an arbitrary timeline on the rebuild and anything that does not conform to that you rail against.

 

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Dude, you run your mouth constantly and people are going to respond.  Deal with it.  Don't want people to respond to you?

STFU.  For once in your life.  Or deal with the fact this is a public forum and you'll get public responses.

"Sheep."  "Troll."

I'll counter with "Pedantic, repetitive, weak bully."  Who would never in a million years talk to people in person like you do on the internet.

Now to the point I was making is that your expectations are based solely on parameters that you yourself have set.  That is largely the source of your frustration.  You have put an arbitrary timeline on the rebuild and anything that does not conform to that you rail against.

 

Everything I say here I would say to you…with a smile on my face.  I’m always known for telling people the way I see it and being brutally honest. 

And I welcome responses..just usually prefer intelligence behind them which you usually fail at doing.

My timeline had nothing to do with what I said to Tony.  His timeline is 2023.
 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

What I’m saying is that is really subjective.  There is no right or wrong on ready or not.  

And can they get ready up here vs the minors?  What stops that from happening?

Again, if the goal is to win in 2023, it means a lot of these guys need significant experience up here now.  

We can’t keep saying, we want to win and the prospects are the key but then not give them a chance because they aren’t perfect or because “it’s the right time”.

Bradish is a good example. He had a terrible outing on Aug 22 last year outside of that, his last 10 or so starts were very solid. What is he going to learn in AAA for a month or 2 that changes who he is as a pitcher?  and what about those changes couldn’t have been made up here?

I mean, I agree he’s going to get his chance and he likely gets it by Mid May but I don’t see the argument that he goes to AAA and fixes his issues in a short period of time.  He’s 25 years old.  He has 40 starts in the minors over 3 levels and has held his own at the upper levels.  

We're not far off on Bradish, honestly. My guess though is they want to see him extend to 100 pitches and maintain his stuff and command. He hasn't done that yet. If he's still pitching to the 80 pitch limit in May I'll start having a hard time understanding what they want him to work on. 

I still have questions whether he can command well enough to be anything more than a 5 inning  starter and why ultimately, he may make a very good late inning reliever. 

Bradish though is really the only guy that I can buy that argument of that has been sent down. The rest need more work or on Grayson Rodriguez's situation, there are economic issues that come into play here. 

 

[Tony-OH]

46 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Dude, you run your mouth constantly and people are going to respond.  Deal with it.  Don't want people to respond to you?

STFU.  For once in your life.  Or deal with the fact this is a public forum and you'll get public responses.

"Sheep."  "Troll."

I'll counter with "Pedantic, repetitive, weak bully."  Who would never in a million years talk to people in person like you do on the internet.

Now to the point I was making is that your expectations are based solely on parameters that you yourself have set.  That is largely the source of your frustration.  You have put an arbitrary timeline on the rebuild and anything that does not conform to that you rail against.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Everything I say here I would say to you…with a smile on my face.  I’m always known for telling people the way I see it and being brutally honest. 

And I welcome responses..just usually prefer intelligence behind them which you usually fail at doing.

Gentlemen, please take your personal beef with each other offline or to DM.

Also, we can tone down the attacks on people's intelligence if they have a differing opinion. 

This is baseball. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and move on.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

We're not far off on Bradish, honestly. My guess though is they want to see him extend to 100 pitches and maintain his stuff and command. He hasn't done that yet. If he's still pitching to the 80 pitch limit in May I'll start having a hard time understanding what they want him to work on. 

I still have questions whether he can command well enough to be anything more than a 5 inning  starter and why ultimately, he may make a very good late inning reliever. 

Bradish though is really the only guy that I can buy that argument of that has been sent down. The rest need more work or on Grayson Rodriguez's situation, there are economic issues that come into play here. 

 

Yea but how long until he is up to 100 pitches iyo?  That’s going to take time.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

Gentlemen, please take your personal beef with each other offline or to DM.

Also, we can tone down the attacks on people's intelligence if they have a differing opinion. 

This is baseball. sometime you just have to agree to disagree and move on.

Fair enough.  I’m sorry but he will never DM me and he is the one with the issue. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but how long until he is up to 100 pitches iyo?  That’s going to take time.

I wonder how many starts the O's had in 2021 in which the starter went 100 pitches?

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but how long until he is up to 100 pitches iyo?  That’s going to take time.

I think he can be there by May. He was a 40-man guy so he's a little behind the others in the minors so he could be on a 60-70 pitch for a couple of starts then to 80 for 3-4 starts then I think you let him lose to 100. 

It was hard to gauge from minor league broadcasts how he held his velocity last year, but I know some starts early he was down to 91-92 by the 4th innings. Now I do remember seeing him down to 91-93 then would pop a 95 when he needed it in 5th inning of games late in the year, but I don't have the statcast data I need to really have an accurate judge.

Even if he holds his velocity, command is a big deal when pitchers tire. See Lopez as an example. He can be throwing just as hard but he starts missing more and when I mean missing, missing more in the middle of the plate and he ends up getting hit. 

He's a legit major league pitcher, the question just remains what will his best role be for a contending team? He's certainly got a chance to stick as a starter, but I still think he ends up in the bullpen when it all said and done. But he certainly should be developed as a starter and tried as a starter first.

 

[Sports Guy]

Does anywhere track pitch counts for the minors?  I wonder how many times he even went over 80 pitches in the minors last year, much less 100?