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DL Hall 2023


justD

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It doesn't matter how good the stuff is if you can't command it.  Maybe the back injury was a good thing if it is forcing him to throttle back a little bit and work on his command.   Hope he gets back to 100% soon and he starts commanding that high 90's filth in an O's uniform.

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14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We do know why..the back injury. He talked about it after his outing in the majors.

 

I dunno if I really buy this. So he missed some weight lifting for a little while. There are other ways to keep the arm and shoulder strengthened without, like, bench pressing or whatever. Do we hear about guys losing velocity due to limiting their workouts much? I feel like we don't, but who knows. 

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7 minutes ago, interloper said:

I dunno if I really buy this. So he missed some weight lifting for a little while. There are other ways to keep the arm and shoulder strengthened without, like, bench pressing or whatever. Do we hear about guys losing velocity due to limiting their workouts much? I feel like we don't, but who knows. 

I don’t think you realize how debilitating a back injury can be and how the team restricts him.

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24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We do know why..the back injury. He talked about it after his outing in the majors.

 

I've been president of the DL fan club through the years, but...he's just one of those guys where it's always something.  Didn't get a good spring, tipping his pitches, not an ideal call-up - at some point, you just gotta put up results.  And maybe all of those things have merit on their own, but at some point just own up and get results.

All of that said...the velo drop is very concerning for me but I still have high hopes for him.  

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27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We do know why..the back injury. He talked about it after his outing in the majors.

 

I don’t think it’s that easy to rebuild velocity during the season, so I’m not really expecting 97+ from Hall at any point this year.  

At the same time, he’s striking out 12.2 batters per 9 without the premium heat.  His ERA and WHIP are down significantly from last year’s AAA numbers.  He’s starting to get deeper into games.  His last two starts have been excellent.  So I’m thinking it could be good for Hall to learn to pitch without his top velocity FB this year, then work hard over the winter to get his velocity back up. It could be great for him in the long run, and I still think we’ll get some useful major league innings from him this year at some point.  

Right now he’s at 30.1 innings on the year, compared to 10.2 at this point last year.  I’d love to see him throw 130ish this year compared to the 98 he threw last season. 


 

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7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think you realize how debilitating a back injury can be and how the team restricts him.

Yeah I guess. Just feels a little extreme to me, but we don't know a whole lot about the injury or how long he was on the shelf during the off-season. Kinda like Tate. 

Either way, if 97 vs 95 is the difference between DL Hall being great or not, that's kind of an issue. But his last outing looked pretty solid. I don't really expect any SP to go more than 6 innings these days anyway. 

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9 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I've been president of the DL fan club through the years, but...he's just one of those guys where it's always something.  Didn't get a good spring, tipping his pitches, not an ideal call-up - at some point, you just gotta put up results.  And maybe all of those things have merit on their own, but at some point just own up and get results.

All of that said...the velo drop is very concerning for me but I still have high hopes for him.  

You aren’t wrong…the good news is that the team is in a place where they can be patient with him.

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10 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I've been president of the DL fan club through the years, but...he's just one of those guys where it's always something.  Didn't get a good spring, tipping his pitches, not an ideal call-up - at some point, you just gotta put up results.  And maybe all of those things have merit on their own, but at some point just own up and get results.

All of that said...the velo drop is very concerning for me but I still have high hopes for him.  

It didn't help that Elias was also the president of the Hall fan club last year. He needlessly pumped him up and told reporters early on that he was close and going to be this big factor. Then he wasn't at all, and still isn't. But he continued to talk him up this spring, too. Now he's doing the right thing which just shut up and let him cook, and be open to using him in the bullpen if needed. 

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3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

We do know why..the back injury. He talked about it after his outing in the majors.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  That's what he said, but players often downplay things.  And it doesn't explain why his velocity as a reliever last year wasn't as high as expected.  And if his back injury is still bothering him enough to cause a significant decline in velocity, why is he pitching instead of rehabbing?

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Just now, Otter said:

Maybe, maybe not.  That's what he said, but players often downplay things.  And it doesn't explain why his velocity as a reliever last year wasn't as high as expected.  And if his back injury is still bothering him enough to cause a significant decline in velocity, why is he pitching instead of rehabbing?

It’s not that it’s still bothering him, it’s that he didn’t get to weight train and just hasn’t built up his strength like you would want.

As for last year..he also had never thrown that many innings before and was over 60 innings more compared to 2021, so him tiring some isn’t that difficult to assume.

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Just now, Sports Guy said:

It’s not that it’s still bothering him, it’s that he didn’t get to weight train and just hasn’t built up his strength like you would want.

As for last year..he also had never thrown that many innings before and was over 60 innings more compared to 2021, so him tiring some isn’t that difficult to assume.

I'm not arguing that all the things you mention can't be contributing to that, just that I'm worried there's something else there.  He has a history of injuries, and a history of poor control and command.  I guess I'm just frustrated he hasn't progressed like we've hoped.  But I can tell you I'd be a lot less worried if we had more high upside pitching prospects in the minors....which we don't...

Developing pitching is a game of attrition...you need to accumulate many pitching prospects to overcome injuries...which is my biggest frustration with Elias that he hasn't done that.

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9 minutes ago, Otter said:

I'm not arguing that all the things you mention can't be contributing to that, just that I'm worried there's something else there.  He has a history of injuries, and a history of poor control and command.  I guess I'm just frustrated he hasn't progressed like we've hoped.  But I can tell you I'd be a lot less worried if we had more high upside pitching prospects in the minors....which we don't...

Developing pitching is a game of attrition...you need to accumulate many pitching prospects to overcome injuries...which is my biggest frustration with Elias that he hasn't done that.

I don’t think he’s injured at all. I think that’s just something people want to grasp onto but it’s unfounded.

That said, is it possible that after years of injuries, that he is losing velo naturally?  Yes, that’s absolutely possible. It’s also possible that he can still be really good with that but the command and control has to improve.

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12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think he’s injured at all. I think that’s just something people want to grasp onto but it’s unfounded.

That said, is it possible that after years of injuries, that he is losing velo naturally?  Yes, that’s absolutely possible. It’s also possible that he can still be really good with that but the command and control has to improve.

I agree with you on the possibility of losing velocity without an acute injury.  Every pitcher only has a certain amount of bullets in that arm, and you never know when you will run out.

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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Hall pulled after 45 pitches tonight. Any idea why?

I didn’t hear the broadcasters say anything.  He threw 20 pitches in the first two innings  and 25 in the third.  Wasn’t particularly sharp.  He did strike out Gary Sanchez. 

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