The Adam Frazier Hate

[Mr-splash]

I don't get it. I do understand Frazier is not a hugely talented big leaguer, but this idea that Frazier is a bad ballplayer has been bizarre to see this season from fans. Every fanbase needs a whipping boy and a scapegoat to blame when a tough loss occurs. Frazier seems to be that guy for us. Frazier has a career 2.5 WAA. Meaning that he's actually been a very slightly above average big league ballplayer for his career. His first two seasons he was a bad defender, but every single season since he has graded as a plus defender with the glove at 2nd base. His OPS right now is .704

 

Ramon Urias is the best infielder in the organization right now. Mateo is probably the 2nd best. Frazier is the 3rd best. Gunnar and Mounty are the 4th and 5th best. Why is Frazier playing? Well, he's just better than the other guys in the organization right now. I'm not talking about future projections. You can point to guys like Ortiz, Westburg, Norby, etc. But Frazier is a proven commodity. Right now.

[Aristotelian]

I hated the signing and still do, but I have nothing against Frazier himself. He is a solid player. Solid D, always puts up good AB's, and has just enough pop to be a threat.

[Alasdaire]

2 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

Why is Frazier playing? Well, he's just better than the other guys in the organization right now. I'm not talking about future projections. You can point to guys like Ortiz, Westburg, Norby, etc. But Frazier is a proven commodity. Right now.

Proven at doing what? OPSing ~.700 for his career? Which he's underperforming this year?

He made three or four bad plays at second within the first five inning tonight. This as Joey Ortiz is fighting for playing time and whipping the ball over from third base.

Ortiz and Westburg are almost 25 years old. They're both several years out of college. They're not teenagers who are still learning the nuances of the game.

There's good reason to believe that every single one of, let alone any one of, the five or six guys who could replace Frazier would be better right now. Reasonable minds can disagree there, but it's certainly not a shoo-in that playing one of the prospects would be mortgaging present-day value.

[Mr-splash]

1 minute ago, Alasdaire said:

Proven at doing what? OPSing ~.700 for his career? Which he's underperforming this year?

He made three or four bad plays at second within the first five inning tonight. This as Joey Ortiz is fighting for playing time and whipping the ball over from third base.

Ortiz and Westburg are almost 25 years old. They're both several years out of college. They're not teenagers who are still learning the nuances of the game.

There's good reason to believe that every single one of, let alone any one of, the five or six guys who could replace Frazier would be better right now. Reasonable minds can disagree there, but it's certainly not a shoo-in that playing one of the prospects would be mortgaging present-day value.

 

Yes, I know Ortiz has a plus glove, but so does Frazier. You don't grade as a plus defender for 6 consecutive years if you can't field the position. Now as far as the bat goes, Ortiz did produce a single tonight. Frazier put one over the wall.

[Can_of_corn]

The main issue with Frazier is that we know the team has a very limited budget and spending 8M on Frazier when the team is rife with middle infielder prospects makes little sense.

[Alasdaire]

Just now, Mr-splash said:

 

Yes, I know Ortiz has a plus glove, but so does Frazier. You don't grade as a plus defender for 6 consecutive years if you can't field the position. Now as far as the bat goes, Ortiz did produce a single tonight. Frazier put one over the wall.

If you're basing your valuation of Adam Frazier on his slugging ability, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Mr-splash]

2 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

If you're basing your valuation of Adam Frazier on his slugging ability, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

You don't have to sell anything. You can go check out his baseball reference right now. You don't play 864 games and end up with a postive WAA if you can't play baseball at the MLB level.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Mr-splash

[jabba72]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The main issue with Frazier is that we know the team has a very limited budget and spending 8M on Frazier when the team is rife with middle infielder prospects makes little sense.

Well he kind of shown his value tonight homering in a short LF porch in which 4 out of 5 AL East parks showcase. Im beginning to kind of see why Elias said he wanted a LH 2B. Personally I would have rolled with one of Westburg-Otiz-Urias at 2B. But thats just me. Elias clearly had other plans. 

[Alasdaire]

Just now, Mr-splash said:

You don't have to sell anything. You can go check out his baseball reference right now. You don't play 864 guys and end up with a postive WAA if you can't play baseball at the MLB level.

He is a major league baseball player, sure. But at his best, he was mediocre. And he is on the back end of that trajectory now.

His play also doesn't exist in a vacuum; we have an embarrassment of riches waiting in the wings. I am confident that one of them would be an average defender and OPS over .685. It's not a high bar.

[Mr-splash]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The main issue with Frazier is that we know the team has a very limited budget and spending 8M on Frazier when the team is rife with middle infielder prospects makes little sense.

What if he's just better than they are right now? He's outplaying Gunnar right now believe it or not. He's outplaying Mounty. In the 8 games Ortiz has played, he's outplayed Ortiz. The rebuild is coming to an end. I am loving the fact that we are winning games.  

[ArtVanDelay]

I can’t say I’ve ever seen anyone use WAA in an argument before. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

What if he's just better than they are right now? He's outplaying Gunnar right now believe it or not. He's outplaying Mounty. In the 8 games Ortiz has played, he's outplayed Ortiz. The rebuild is coming to an end. I am loving the fact that we are winning games.  

What if the 8M could have been spent to make some other move that would have made an even bigger positive difference?

What if the reason he's outplaying Ortiz is because Ortiz hasn't been up all year?

I want the team to follow a sensible process.  Baseball is full of chaos and bad moves can and will pay off just like the proper move can fail miserably.

Spending ~10% of the teams payroll on Frazier isn't a sensible move.

[Os4days]

I agree it didn’t make sense to sign Frazier considering all the young talent we have but I’m okay with it because he’s a veteran. Having that veteran presence can be helpful for a team with zero playoff experience. 
 

Hey he is on pace for more homers and RBIs than Trea Turner who got a $300 million contract. 

[ChosenOne21]

26 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

I don't get it. I do understand Frazier is not a hugely talented big leaguer, but this idea that Frazier is a bad ballplayer has been bizarre to see this season from fans. Every fanbase needs a whipping boy and a scapegoat to blame when a tough loss occurs. Frazier seems to be that guy for us. Frazier has a career 2.5 WAA. Meaning that he's actually been a very slightly above average big league ballplayer for his career. His first two seasons he was a bad defender, but every single season since he has graded as a plus defender with the glove at 2nd base. His OPS right now is .704

 

Ramon Urias is the best infielder in the organization right now. Mateo is probably the 2nd best. Frazier is the 3rd best. Gunnar and Mounty are the 4th and 5th best. Why is Frazier playing? Well, he's just better than the other guys in the organization right now. I'm not talking about future projections. You can point to guys like Ortiz, Westburg, Norby, etc. But Frazier is a proven commodity. Right now.

I thought Ryan McKenna was our whipping boy. He'll be at Fanfest in 20 years and someone will mention the fact he dropped a fly ball once

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, ChosenOne21 said:

I thought Ryan McKenna was our whipping boy. He'll be at Fanfest in 20 years and someone will mention the fact he dropped a fly ball once

At least they won't be bashing his smile like poor Mountcastle.