Cease vs everyone else

[Pickles]

45 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Your inability to comprehend simple things doesn’t mean it wasn’t explained to you.

Answer me this Mr. Rickey: Why did you spend 4 years screaming "It doesn't need to take this long!" if you give weight to the premise that the White Sox aren't going to be relevant for four years?

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, Malike said:

The two biggest issues going on over at the Sox site in my opinion are these.

1. Despite people saying Ortiz would not be a headliner, they hate him and keep insisting that people from this board are making him a headliner. 

2. They think without Cease, we will be a last-place team in the East.

My IQ and patience have both dropped in the very short time I've spent there. They are dense and despite being told otherwise, they just insist Ortiz can never be the headliner and the Orioles are a last-place team without Cease.

I get that they are horribly run and they develop about as well as the Orioles did when we were the laughingstock of baseball many years ago and they absolutely need to hit on this trade, but I don't have any confidence that they'd not ruin our prospects anyway in development. They're that bad.

It’s the same group of people that agreed with me on a trade for Cease while later on telling me I’m underrating him and overrating our prospects.

Yea, it’s not the smartest group of people.

[RZNJ]

This almost seems like SportsGuy on MLBTR chat just now.

contract

Orioles

8:08

Do Cowser, Norby, Kremer and Urias get Cease to Baltimore?

Mark P

8:09

I tend to think yes, but Baltimore wouldn't offer that.  Kremer is a good pitcher in his own right, so the upgrade from Kremer to Cease very probably isn't worth the Cowser/Norby/Urias package in the Orioles' view

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Answer me this Mr. Rickey: Why did you spend 4 years screaming "It doesn't need to take this long!" if you give weight to the premise that the White Sox aren't going to be relevant for four years?

I already explained this very clearly. I’m not saying it should take that long or it needs to take that long. 
 

Im saying their owner will soak up profits for as long as possible and draw this out as long as possible. He’s as awful as Angelos is in many ways and he will disguise the need to take 4-5 years “like the Astros and Orioles” as a way to steal money from the fans.

I also said if that’s not the case and they want to compete in 2026(like they should), that Ortiz would then make sense for them.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I already explained this very clearly. I’m not saying it should take that long or it needs to take that long. 
 

Im saying their owner will soak up profits for as long as possible and draw this out as long as possible. He’s as awful as Angelos is in many ways and he will disguise the need to take 4-5 years “like the Astros and Orioles” as a way to steal money from the fans.

I also said if that’s not the case and they want to compete in 2026(like they should), that Ortiz would then make sense for them.

Ok, then we don't need to give any weight to what some jackasses on the White Sox board are saying.  Ortiz makes a ton of sense for them.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Ok, then we don't need to give any weight to what some jackasses on the White Sox board are saying.  Ortiz makes a ton of sense for them.

No he doesn’t..unless they want to contend sooner.

Otherwise, he doesn’t make sense for them.

He makes a lot more sense for the Marlins. That is the team we really need to be talking to.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

No he doesn’t..unless they want to contend sooner.

Otherwise, he doesn’t make sense for them.

He makes a lot more sense for the Marlins. That is the team we really need to be talking to.

Again, why wouldn't they want to contend as soon as possible?  At least with cheap players like Joey Ortiz?

He makes sense for any team that wants a cheap SS option with a lot of upside and a very high floor.

[ChosenOne21]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

What is the equivalent to Ortiz if we take him Out because he doesn’t make as much sense for them?  

I don't know. They want pitching and we don't have it. Maybe Povich+?

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Again, why wouldn't they want to contend as soon as possible?  At least with cheap players like Joey Ortiz?

He makes sense for any team that wants a cheap SS option with a lot of upside and a very high floor.

Are you seriously asking me that same question again?  Maybe you disagree and think Reinsdorf will be different and that’s fine…but stop asking me the same question when I have been very clear with my answer.

Personally, I think they should see their garbage division and look to contend in 2026. With the new draft rules, it doesn’t make sense to tank for more than a year or 2.(I don’t think it made sense under the old rules either but whatever)

I just don’t think Reinsdorf will see it that way. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I don't know. They want pitching and we don't have it. Maybe Povich+?

I would say Norby or Beavers plus Povich worth more than Ortiz?  I think the WS would prefer the former over the latter.

I think the Marlins would prefer Ortiz.

[ChosenOne21]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I would say Norby or Beavers plus Povich worth more than Ortiz?  I think the WS would prefer the former over the latter.

I think the Marlins would prefer Ortiz.

I'd probably do Cowser, Povich, Beavers. I'm guessing that might be slightly more value than Ortiz, but split among two players.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Are you seriously asking me that same question again?  Maybe you disagree and think Reinsdorf will be different and that’s fine…but stop asking me the same question when I have been very clear with my answer.

Personally, I think they should see their garbage division and look to contend in 2026. With the new draft rules, it doesn’t make sense to tank for more than a year or 2.(I don’t think it made sense under the old rules either but whatever)

I just don’t think Reinsdorf will see it that way. 

But your answers are stupid.  They don't make basic logical sense.

Winning with a cheap team is better than losing with a cheap team for your bottom line.  Joey Ortiz is cheap and will be for a very long time.  If Joey Ortiz can help you win, he's absolutely a guy a team in their position would target.

Winning as soon as possible is in their best financial interest.  That doesn't mean spending money on free agents is, but winning asap is very much in their best financial interest, and they know it.

Do you think the Angelos family made more money in 2023 or 2021?

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

But your answers are stupid.  They don't make basic logical sense.

Winning with a cheap team is better than losing with a cheap team for your bottom line.  Joey Ortiz is cheap and will be for a very long time.  If Joey Ortiz can help you win, he's absolutely a guy a team in their position would target.

Winning as soon as possible is in their best financial interest.  That doesn't mean spending money on free agents is, but winning asap is very much in their best financial interest, and they know it.

Do you think the Angelos family made more money in 2023 or 2021?

 But we don’t know how good a 29/30 y/o Ortiz will be. I know you think he’s the second coming to Jesus Christ but slightly built MIers will tend to wear down. Historically, MIers fall off a cliff by their early 30s. Ortiz being a slightly built guy is a risk a little earlier imo.

He just doesn’t make sense if you aren’t trying to win in the next few years.  
 

As for profits, the Os and As were very profitable in their down years, as has been discussed on here a lot.

Teams that rebuild normally choose to suck for longer than they should. Reisndorf is going to do the same imo. This is a guy that is flirting with Nashville as well, even though they has no chance of happening.

All the WS fans hate him and want him gone. He’s a terrible owner. 
 

Hell, I hope they want Ortiz. It makes it likelier a deal happens but they have other MI prospects as well, so that’s another factor.

 

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I'd probably do Cowser, Povich, Beavers. I'm guessing that might be slightly more value than Ortiz, but split among two players.

I think the deal I’m putting on the table is Westburg, Beavers and Povich…I would include a far lesser prospect if I had to get a deal done but that’s the basic premise for me.

Im hoping that Westburg is the lead in the package we trade for a pitcher.

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Pickles said:

But your answers are stupid.  They don't make basic logical sense.

Winning with a cheap team is better than losing with a cheap team for your bottom line.  Joey Ortiz is cheap and will be for a very long time.  If Joey Ortiz can help you win, he's absolutely a guy a team in their position would target.

Winning as soon as possible is in their best financial interest.  That doesn't mean spending money on free agents is, but winning asap is very much in their best financial interest, and they know it.

Do you think the Angelos family made more money in 2023 or 2021?

I don't know.

Payroll was between 31-40M lower in 2021.  They drew 1M more in 2023.  How much do the O's net per filled seat? 

I'm sure revenue was higher in 2023, profits...I don't know.