Cease vs everyone else

[NCRaven]

If I’m giving up multiple top 100 prospects, I’d rather target younger pitchers with more control from the Marlins, Mariners or others .

[Moose Milligan]

Even Santa Claus can’t cool down the Cease thread!

[Roll Tide]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's OK.

I'm not even advocating for the trade, just saying it can make sense.

I don't think he will put up 12 wins.

Eight?  Well he put up 8.6 rWAR and 8.1 fWAR over the last two seasons so I think eight is in reach.

I don’t think he’s the player he was 2 years ago. I think he shot his load.

[Roll Tide]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:37 AM, RZNJ said:

What makes you say Cowser lacks power?   That’s not correct.  Just look up his AA and AAA numbers.  It’s easy.

I think he’s a 15 homer ish guy. My problem isn’t so much that he struggled at the plate. His D-War was -3.7. He was truly awful despite being named a possible CF.

[Frobby]

53 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I think he’s a 15 homer ish guy. My problem isn’t so much that he struggled at the plate. His D-War was -3.7. He was truly awful despite being named a possible CF.

His dWAR was -0.6.  Where are you getting -3.7?  That would be almost impossible.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

His dWAR was -0.6.  Where are you getting -3.7?  That would be almost impossible.  

His 162 game average.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

His 162 game average.

Reminds me of a Steven Wright joke.

Cop: The speed limit here is 55 miles an hour.  You were driving 70 miles an hour. 

Wright: Yeah, but I wasn’t planning to be driving that long.  
 

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Reminds me of a Steven Wright joke.
 

It’s a small world.  But I wouldn’t want to paint it.

[Sports Guy]

5 hours ago, Pickles said:

Because Sports Guy has decided he wants to trade Kremer, so now logic will be contorted, and facts will be either ignored or promoted, all based on the idea that Kremer MUST be traded.

You essentially have a picture of Elias on your ceiling that you fall asleep to every night.  You fawn all over him because of his ability to develop players, get good value for little money, etc..

So, if you are going to be consistent (I know this is asking a lot), you should feel confident that Elias can find a 4th starter with a 100 ERA+ for far less than 8-12M…especially 2-3 years from now when his Intl signings should be showing something and maybe more draft picks, like we just had.

So yea, I think spending 10ishM on something you get someone making league minimum is a stupid waste of money.  But hey, if you don’t have confidence in Elias, I get why you would feel different.

I feel good about Elias being able to figure things out and get good value out of Kremer.  Teams will limited budgets shouldn’t be spending that type of money for middling guys…I don’t care if it’s Kremer, Mountcastle or what..even spending money on a guy like Givens, a middling reliever. Just a waste of money.

Gibson and Lyles worked out but that doesn’t mean they should keep doing it and again, our pitching situation in the minors should look better in a few years.

Let another team pay up for mediocrity.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Gurgi]

Forgive me if this article has been brought up.  I did not have time to go through 100+ threads.  Seems the propects that Chicago was trying to pry from Cincinati has dropped.  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/orioles-know-asking-price-to-acquire-ace/ar-AA1m1hmO

"I know the White Sox were asking the Reds a crazy price for Dylan Cease. Chicago wanted Edwin Arroyo, Rhett Lowder, Connor Phillips and at least one more prospect. Do they think [Nick] Krall is Santa Claus? That’s enough to put you on the naughty list all by itself," he reports.

MLB Pipeline ranks Rhett Lowder as the Reds' No. 2 overall prospect, Edwin Arroyo their No. 3 overall prospect and Connor Phillips No. 4. They're also the 41st, 57th and 68th ranked prospects in all of minor league baseball.

That is quite the asking price.

This is insanely high.  It would be guys like Cowser, Kjerstad and Basillo.  This guy hasnt proved he is worth all that in my book.

[RZNJ]

5 hours ago, Pickles said:

That's crazy to me.  So you're willing to trade two top sixty prospects for a minor upgrade in the starting rotation for two years?

It doesn't make sense on any level, unless you've convinced yourself the O's MUST do SOMETHING, and that something must be Dylan Cease.

It's a gamble but one we can afford to take.  Cease is an upgrade over Kremer and I buy into his upside.  I also think Kremer may regress.  It's going to take two prospects to get a Cease, Luzardo,  or Valdez.  Adding Kremer depends on how you feel about him.  

I've made it known that I'd prefer to give up a lot less and gamble on one year of Bieber but I would gamble this deal on Cease.

[Gurgi]

4 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

First … I’m not giving up Cowser and Ortiz as I do not believe they are getting offered 2 top 50 guys by anyone else. So there is no need to add more than 1 additional prospect. If Elias traded Cowser and Ortiz with no sweetener I wouldn’t think he lost the trade. Anything more and it’s a loser IMO. 
 

In the end, I think one top 100 prospect and a couple other guys gets it done. They need to use him to rebuild. Holding on to him just reduces his value as the clock ticks.

Chicago is asking for 3 top 100 prospects.   Crazy

[Moose Milligan]

I think the White Sox need to cease with their lofty demands. 

[emmett16]

Only reason I advocate for trading Kremer is because he has a good bit of value, not because I don’t like him and want to get rid of him.  He’s fairly cheap and has been a league average + pitcher the last two years.  There is reason to think there is more in the tank for the soon to be 28 y/o.  If Kremer, Westburg, Norby, & two low level lottery picks could get this done that would be fantastic.  If they have to cough up a Kjerstad or Cowser that would be painful.  Can Westburg be headliner with Kremer and Notby as secondary pieces ?  

[Jagwar]

5 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

12 is the best case… and I’m betting it’s closer to 8. If Cease does better than 8 WAR over the next 2 seasons regardless to where he is I’ll meet and buy you a cold one at Pickles.

Kremer won 13 last year with a better WHIP and ERA.