Is Joe Jordan Improving?

[Crazysilver03]

Gonna be tough to hit $7.3 million with what we've drafted thus far.

I don't think it hits $6 million.

He'd have to take a crazy pick in Day Three for it to come close...

I'll take my medicine if I'm wrong, and I'll be happy to do it...

Is the $7.3M from 2007 or 2008?

[Stotle]

Just my opinion, but I think it's wrong to conclude that, just because the O's drafted some high picks that will sign for slot or even below slot, that means those choices were made for monetary reasons. I truly believe that Hobgood and the other high picks were chosen because that's who Jordan wanted at the time.

The Hobgood choice, I think, will define this draft. Clearly, the O's staff valued him more highly than a lot of other scouts did. If there judgment is proven correct, the critics will have to tip their hats and say, this guy Jordan really knows what he's doing. If that pick fails, he will be open to a lot of critics saying "I told you so."

I don't have an opinion as to whether Jordan has gotten better over the years. I think maybe his mission is changing slightly, because we now have a nice core of young players who are in the majors or on the cusp, and there is still a lot of pitching talent in the upper minors. Therefore, I think high school pitchers who will take 4-5 years to develop (and some will fail specatcularly) are a better investment for us today than they would have been 3 years ago. But overall, Jordan has been pretty consistent in looking for talent regardless of need or timetable, and not being afraid to take a risk.

I agree you take who you like -- end of story. That said, I also think it's important to be able to somewhat identify when a player might be coming off the board. In other words, could you have shifted picks 3:5 and 4:5 to 4:5 and 5:5 and grabbed Chris Dominguez or Glaesmann or Marisnick, etc.?

I don't know -- Jordan would have a better idea -- but both those picks seemed a little high for when I'd expect them off the board.

[glenn__davis]

That said, 2005 and 2006 are a pretty dissappointing at this point.

I'd have to disagree with that, especially 2005. Snyder, Reimold, Erbe and Hernandez all appear possible to be in the O's long term plans. Spoone certainly could be if not for the injury, and there's still a chance he comes back and is able to re-establish himself. There's a good chance that out this draft Jordan got 2 long-term position players and 2-3 long-term pitchers. I really don't see how you can be disappointed with that draft.

2006 looks a little weaker, mainly because it really hinges on Rowell and to a lesser extent Beato. But Berken could be contributor, Britton looks good so far, Blake Davis may be able to stick as a utility man, and Ryan Adams appears to at least be on track with his hitting. But I will agree that this possibly looks like his worst draft (not counting 2007 when he didn't have a 2nd or 3rd round pick).

[csgordos]

I don't think we are seeing what Jordan can do in this draft as his hands have been tied by MacPhail's budget IMO.

I think before this draft, we were seeing what Jordan can do, but MacPhail seems to really have reigned in the spending for this class and Jordan's picks have regressed as a result.

If we all agree that in his previous drafting classes that Jordan has done a good/great job, do you think the rest of baseball thinks the same thing?

If the answer is yes...

Why in the **** would we tie Jordan's hands? Do we want to piss him off as his reputation in the league would be affected? Do we want him to want to leave the organization because he cannot do what he wants to? Does anybody REALLY believe this?:scratchchinhmm:

I have yet to see any proof that this is the case. I will trust Tony when he says Jordan is a straight shooter. Most straight shooters that I know who are Type A personalities will not allow somebody to tie their hands and sit back and not let people know about it. I honestly think Jordan took who he wanted and who HE THOUGHT we could ACTUALLY sign to get into the system. Would it have been better to draft the "bigger" names and not get them to sign? Where would that have left us? This is just plain crazy. Can we judge this class in 3 years and not in the 3 seconds after it happened? Was there a poll about Hobgood and a firing?:scratchchinhmm:

[McLovin]

I'd have to disagree with that, especially 2005. Snyder, Reimold, Erbe and Hernandez all appear possible to be in the O's long term plans. Spoone certainly could be if not for the injury, and there's still a chance he comes back and is able to re-establish himself. There's a good chance that out this draft Jordan got 2 long-term position players and 2-3 long-term pitchers. I really don't see how you can be disappointed with that draft.

Fair enough, good points.

[McLovin]

Do you think there are other teams out there that are getting 5 or 6 solid ML regualr players from each draft? Relativity! Relativity!

I already conceded the point.

[Anonymous]

Gonna be tough to hit $7.3 million with what we've drafted thus far.

I don't think it hits $6 million.

He'd have to take a crazy pick in Day Three for it to come close...

I'll take my medicine if I'm wrong, and I'll be happy to do it...

When I go shopping, I want to buy more for less. When you go shopping, you just want to pay more without regard to what you might be purchasing. You are truly the dream customer for every sales associate in the world.

[JTrea81]

Is the $7.3M from 2007 or 2008?

We spent $7.3 million in bonus money last year.

[PeteCanes]

I don't think we are seeing what Jordan can do in this draft as his hands have been tied by MacPhail's budget IMO.

I think before this draft, we were seeing what Jordan can do, but MacPhail seems to really have reigned in the spending for this class and Jordan's picks have regressed as a result.

You seem so absolutely sure of this. For all you know, Jordan and his scouts thought that Krol and the other guys you wax poetically about aren't all that great, thus having nothing to do with the money. You just don't know is the thing, yet you pollute the board with these rants and diatribes. Not trying to pile on, I just had to say this.

[LookinUp]

Of course he would. I'm pretty sure JTrea just wants the best possible players in the system; is that too much to ask for?

I'm pretty sure that JTrea has no idea if the guys we did pick this year were the best possible players.

That's they problem with most of the knee jerk reactions about the draft on this board. We all see what BA, BP, Law, Stotle/Crawdad/Pappas/AllStar have to say, but not one of them actually employs an entire staff of scouts to go out and see these players multiple times. Not one of them has these players in for personal workouts to see close up what they have, and maybe even what they can do with things they don't show in games.

None of the guys who provide us information (which we all love) have the resources to get the information that Jordan and others have. To draw negative conclusions about the players we got, despite the obviously successful Jordan track record, is insane.

I'd like to also note that Stotle, who's shadow draft did not mirror ours, is quite open minded about what we've done in this draft.

I'd also like to point everyone to Frobby's new top 10 thread in the minors forum. In it, I listed about 20 guys (not counting this draft) that I personally think still have great futures or at least very good upside.

[wickedwitch]

I agree you take who you like -- end of story. That said, I also think it's important to be able to somewhat identify when a player might be coming off the board. In other words, could you have shifted picks 3:5 and 4:5 to 4:5 and 5:5 and grabbed Chris Dominguez or Glaesmann or Marisnick, etc.?

I don't know -- Jordan would have a better idea -- but both those picks seemed a little high for when I'd expect them off the board.

This is what I feel is his biggest weakness. He seems to go for the guys at the top of his board, even if nobody else would select the player for several rounds.

[hoosiers]

This is what I feel is his biggest weakness. He seems to go for the guys at the top of his board, even if nobody else would select the player for several rounds.

We do not know this, but you could be right. Townsend may have been available later.

The thing is - I consider this a strength. JJ takes the guys he wants and does not play too many games with the rounds involved. Maybe Jordan could learn to game the draft better, but maybe he is taking guys just before some other teams would.

All I know is that if I had JJ's job, I would want to draft the guys I (meaning the considered opinion of the scouting department) wanted. I would want to get fired for drafting bad players that I wanted instead of not gaming the draft properly and ending up with other kids. Besides, at the end of the day, Jordan is proving very adept at scooping up talent that slipped.

[Crazysilver03]

This is what I feel is his biggest weakness. He seems to go for the guys at the top of his board, even if nobody else would select the player for several rounds.

In a Roch post, Jordan said he wanted Berry starting in the 5th round but bit his tongue and eventually took him in the 9th round.

Roch

Asked to name the one player who surprised him the most by still being available when the Orioles' turn came up again, Jordan didn't hesitate in choosing Rice University pitcher Ryan Berry, who remained on the board in the ninth round.

Baseball America ranked Berry as the 41st best right-hander in the draft, but he was shut down with a sore shoulder and fell to the Orioles.

"He pitched the best game I saw all year in the first week of March," Jordan said. "He went three, maybe it was four straight complete games and he came up tender. He sat for about six weeks, came back and his stuff wasn't as crisp. He was making pitches, but the stuff fell off. We had concerns about his health, and I think the industry did, but I spent a lot of time with our doctors, reviewing everything, and they gave me their thoughts. I wanted him starting around the fifth round, and I kept trying to stretch it. I feel like we got very lucky."

[hoosiers]

In a Roch post, Jordan said he wanted Berry starting in the 5th round but bit his tongue and eventually took him in the 9th round.

I think wicked's point is more that Jordan could may have over-drafted some guys like Townsend and Henry who may have been available later - not that Jordan is incapable of find guys who slipped.

[Crazysilver03]

I think wicked's point is more that Jordan could may have over-drafted some guys like Townsend and Henry who may have been available later - not that Jordan is incapable of find guys who slipped.

I understand the point wicked is making but I am making the point that Jordan does well at waiting out picks. He may have overdrafted a few guys but he also underdrafted a few guys, so it averages out.