Poll- Would You Make This Trade?

[Sanfran327]

The Adam Jones of the .540 June OPS? Or the Adam Jones who was killing it for the first month of the season?

Will the real Adam Jones please stand up?

Jones in June - WOW!

[Lucky Jim]

I know it's easy for people to pile on you, but honestly, I'm not so sure what's wrong with this opinion? I think Markakis has All-star capability, but he's never going to be a 35-40 homer guy and realistically, he makes a better number two hitter than number three on a contending team.

I would disagree with you on the GG thing although I think the whole GG thing is ridiculous since the year Ripken lost it despite making three errors all year at SS. Defensively, he's one of the best right-fielders in the game for me.

Either way, no way the Marlins would take that trade. He's a Latin super star shortstop in Miami and they already can't sell tickets. Imagine if they got rid of the one marketable guy?

Agree with the first part. The truth is, Old Fan is looking pretty prescient w/ his stance on Markakis right now. As are the pessimistic predictive models like PECOTA (how's that for alliteration).

It looks as if Markakis's high BABIP and extreme breakout on BB rate were anomalous, and have legitimately normalized. He's showing little power, and even his defensive metrics are down.

I don't think he's Ben Grieve (though I continue to hold that simply acknowledging the risk of a Grieve-like falloff is not irrational), but I don't think he's one of the top-10 OFers in baseball right now. Heck, value-wise this year, he's not even one of the top-10 RFers in the AL.

[SrMeowMeow]

I am so annoyed by the little digs you threw into this poll just to get people to fight that I'm not voting.

Get your kicks some other way. This has become completely independent of any opinion you have of Markakis, legitimate or otherwise. You're just trolling. How can you possibly make a poll where there are three choices to insult Markakis and one choice to insult Hanley and expect to be taken seriously? What if I think it's a fair trade?

I can't believe (well, I can believe it of you) that there's no option for "yes I would do this trade" when your question is "would you make this trade?" This is just another bush league attempt to try to trick people into agreeing with you on the record. It's like if I made a poll, "should OldFan be permanently banned from OH?" and it was a 50/50 split because some people think that's too harsh, and then you used that to say "50% of people approve of my posts!"

Find a new way to express any legitimate opinions you want to debate, or stop trolling.

[Old#5fan]

Agree with the first part. The truth is, Old Fan is looking pretty prescient w/ his stance on Markakis right now. As are the pessimistic predictive models like PECOTA (how's that for alliteration).

It looks as if Markakis's high BABIP and extreme breakout on BB rate were anomalous, and have legitimately normalized. He's showing little power, and even his defensive metrics are down.

I don't think he's Ben Grieve (though I continue to hold that simply acknowledging the risk of a Grieve-like falloff is not irrational), but I don't think he's one of the top-10 OFers in baseball right now. Heck, value-wise this year, he's not even one of the top-10 RFers in the AL.

At the risk of sounding overly pessimistic, I personally believe Nick Markakis is the third best offensive outfielder on the Orioles, behind both Jones and Reimold. He is also way behind Luke Scott as far as HR power as well.

[Khaezh12]

At the risk of sounding overly pessimistic, I personally believe Nick Markakis is the third best offensive outfielder on the Orioles, behind both Jones and Reimold. He is also way behind Luke Scott as far as HR power as well.

:wedge: ....wait, you're not joking? Oh...

Being worse than Jones is debatable, but worse than Reimold? Do you just change the channel whenever the ball is hit towards Markakis (especially with runners trying to advance)? Your statement would make more sense then.

[Lucky Jim]

:wedge: ....wait, you're not joking? Oh...

Being worse than Jones is debatable, but worse than Reimold? Do you just change the channel whenever the ball is hit towards Markakis (especially with runners trying to advance)? Your statement would make more sense then.

He did say "offensive."

[Lucky Jim]

At the risk of sounding overly pessimistic, I personally believe Nick Markakis is the third best offensive outfielder on the Orioles, behind both Jones and Reimold. He is also way behind Luke Scott as far as HR power as well.

Unlike you, I don't think a slumping Markakis is really indicative of his value. My point was only that you'd been vindicated so far - I doubt you are in the long run.

That said, I think that folks may overvalue Nick a little around here.

[Old#5fan]

:wedge: ....wait, you're not joking? Oh...

Being worse than Jones is debatable, but worse than Reimold? Do you just change the channel whenever the ball is hit towards Markakis (especially with runners trying to advance)? Your statement would make more sense then.

I stated offensively. Go back and re-read.

[Khaezh12]

I stated offensively. Go back and re-read.

Well now I just look stupid. My bad...

[leapinghorsered]

For me Nick Markakis is very comparable to Paul O'neill. Nick is a solid, solid, above-average player, but he's unlikely to hit 30 home runs and should probably get some time off against really tough lefties. This team has been horrible for so long that we all desperately want him to become an elite superstar in the category of Pujols or Utley, but he is just not that player.

[Sanfran327]

For me Nick Markakis is very comparable to Paul O'neill. Nick is a solid, solid, above-average player, but he's unlikely to hit 30 home runs and should probably get some time off against really tough lefties. This team has been horrible for so long that we all desperately want him to become an elite superstar in the category of Pujols or Utley, but he is just not that player.

I've been making the Paul O'neil comp for about a year now. He's not going to be the focal point of your offense, but he's going to be a player hitting in the lower half of your offense (if it's a really good offense) that is going to crush other guys around the league hitting in the same slot. He's a very good player, but not elite. We need some elite bats - at least one - to take that next step offensively. If we got that bat and AJ, Wieters, Reimold, and Snyder all progressed, we'd have a very deep, very powerful lineup.

[Balmer Bomber]

I think Old Fan is secretly the Randy Quaid character from Major League 2.

[SrMeowMeow]

He's a .380 OBP bat with good patience and 20+ HR power. That is a very good hitter. Combined with his defense and arm, he is a very good player. He's not Barry Bonds or Hanley Ramirez, but few people are.

Also, home runs aren't everything.

[srock]

If this was a simple yes/no poll I would be very tempted to say yes. However the aforementioned 'thinly veiled crack at Nick' has caused to me to abstain from voting.

As for the trade idea, I'm tempted because losing Markakis leaves us with a still formidable OF: Jones, Reimold, Scott, and Pie. Plus replenishing OF depth is easier then MI depth.

Since we have zero MI depth in the minors, solidifying SS with Hanley is very appealing.

Sherill and Andino as the other parts is negotiable. But, overall, I do like this idea.

The Marlins, however, are unlikely to like it.

[Lucky Jim]

First, I challenge anyone to produce a Venn diagram outlining the choices provided in this poll. I'm afraid my head will explode if I try. The illogic is simply too much for me. :rofl:

Second, I find it hilarious that anyone would say "No" to this trade. Ramirez is much more valuable than Markakis or Jones. I'd trade either of Markakis or Jones plus one of our big three plus Sherrill for Ramirez assuming we could have control of him for 5 years or more. Heck, I'd give serious thought to trading Markakis AND Jones for Ramirez if we had him for at least 5 years.

Third, this is not an insult to either Markakis or Jones. Ramirez simply plays a position that is much leaner in terms of offensive talent AND he brings more than the table than AJ or Kakes. He was drafted #1 in the OH fantasy league and he should have been. It was a no brainer to me. The guy is one of the top 2-3 offensive players in the game. He simply doesn't get as much press as he should because he plays in a mausoleum every night.

Fourth, O5F's contention that we all overvalue Markakis is simply laughable. A few of us do, but most of us realize that Nick is just a really good player who will likely end up with outstanding career numbers due to how early he got started and his likely consistency as he ages.

Markakis is a gold glove caliber outfielder and that really isn't debatable at this point IMO. Will he win one? Who knows because those things are crapshoots. I think we should take the award out of it and say he is clearly one of the top 2-3 defensive right fielders in the game.

Markakis is likely to play on a couple All Star teams at some point. He is good enough to get there in the right situation. If Jones continues to suck wind, I'd say there is a decent chance Markakis will be our rep this year (though I'd lean toward Roberts because 2B is weak this year and I think Sherrill will get consideration).

Markakis will never be an MVP IMO. He is unlikely to ever produce at quite a high enough level for a full season. Even if he does, his game just isn't flashy enough to garner the imagination of people like O5F who can't analyze very well, but love the flashy play. Nick does many things well, but few things at an "what did I just witness" level which is what ultimately pushes great players into MVP awards because of goofy voters like O5F.

The only true ridiculousness on this board re: Markakis is O5F. He has a vendetta. It is just that simple. If Markakis had played the way Jones has played over the past 4 weeks, O5F would have been on here pointing it out every single day. Yet he has written almost nothing about Jones. That tells me all I need to know.

Finally, I'd pay money to hear O5F try to explain the "rationale" behind how he tried to cover all the possible logical combinations in his poll answers. That would be priceless, especially if I was a bit drunk or stoned at the time. If someone could find a good movie clip and splice in their take on what he'd say, I'd forever be indebted (I'm talking to you Clarence ).

Note: O5F, here is a link to Venn diagram for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram

Agree w/ much of what you said. Two points:

One, do you disregard the defensive metrics and what they say about Nick's defense this year?

Two, aren't the results of this poll proof of O5F's point that this board drastically overrates Nick? Or do you think they just drastically underrate Hanley?